Hymns

I think that this topic is based more on what the movie talks about than the actual movie itself...

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être et durer (to be and to last).

talloulou

I go with the whole alien bend.

talloulou

But still you'd think actually seeing the movie could only lend to the discussion.

niftydrifty

Creationists' arguments are well known. you can know them without watching the film. what the movie is actually about, is how creationist educators and scientists are being persecuted. I don't doubt that this is happening. however, the "persecutions" are also fair. so, I don't have to see the movie, in order to learn precisely how the movie lies. I already know that it does.

similarly, if there were a movie about dogs that can talk, I wouldn't need to see that movie either, before criticizing it.

talloulou

In other words you don't even have to listen to somebody before ascertaining that you're right and they're wrong with absolute certainty.

That's incredibly stupid.

niftydrifty

LOL! "that's stupid."

I know you are but what am I?

I already said I don't deny that what the movie says is happening, is happening. they're right about that. and I agree with them. how did I say that the premise of the movie is wrong?

you misunderstand what it is that I'm so certain about. and you call that "stupid."

wow. good luck.

talloulou

I just think far too many of us are willing to sit back and read some sound bytes ect and allow those bits to tell us how we feel about something. If you haven't seen the movie the truth is you have no idea how you would feel about it. You only have your assumptions and expectations which may or may not be spot on.

So many in this thread have just been so earnest in declaring the movie joke worthy and/or pack of lies. I just find it interesting given that they haven't seen it.

I'm just weary of a culture where people listen to others tell them how something is and then accept it without feeling a need to judge for themselves. I think that way of thinking and operating is at best stupid, at worst dangerous.

Not directed specifically at you so much as just my disappointment that we could be so many pages into a discussion without any legit commentary. If you haven't seen the movie you're not offering up you're own opinion so much as your parroting the opinions of others and not just parroting but parroting with zeal.

niftydrifty

agreed.

about some things, sure, about other things, no. it's a documentary. and like I said, creationists' arguments are already well known.

I haven't assumed anything about creationism.

the movie doesn't present any new arguments for creationism. the movie is about the persecution of scientists and educators.

i'm not sure how you can rightly assume that what has happened here is exactly the same as what you're speaking about.

read the OP again. the thread is actually about how ironic and hilarious it was that PZ Myers was expelled from a showing of a film (that he appears in) about people being expelled. that is the topic. there has been plenty of legit commentary. an example of non-legit commentary would be saying that you're disappointed that people have made assumptions about what the film is or isn't about.

have I not made myself clear? what is the movie about? I don't deny the premise of the film, that educators and scientists are being "persecuted." I just don't have to see the film in order to know the reasons why they're being persecuted. I already know that dogs can't talk.

talloulou

Well all I know is I read some crap on it today which made me want to see it including a tidbit from msnbc where a reviewer calls Stein a Holocaust denier. I listened to some show today on the radio where they talked about that review and they were laughing and saying that there's nothing in the movie that would lead a rational person to call Stein a Holocaust denier, yet that's what msnbc's reviewer did. Then there's all the tidbits where people are claiming Hawkins was entrapped and forced to talk about alien seed. Some people are claiming the film is about forcing ID into schools and others are claiming it's more about not squashing scientific research as in, "Don't ignore the unanswered questions because unanswered questions don't just go away."

All around it sounds like fun and it's created a ton of hoopla. Plus from what I recall of Stein, he's no idiot.

I wandered in here to read what you all thought about it. Then I realized none of you all had seen it. That got me thinking I wonder how many blowhards on TV and the radio are commenting without ever having seen it?

Anyway I'll see it. Then we'll talk again because discussing it sight unseen is inane in my mind regardless of your attempts to validate the merits of doing so.

By the way if some documentary film came out claiming that dogs talked I'd go see that too. It might turn out to be a pile of crap but at least when I laughed at it I'd know what I was laughing at. People cling to ideas that are wrong all the time. If you're certain the world is flat why bother with a movie claiming it might be round? It's so much easier to have a completely closed mind and sit in judgment while talking out your arse.

Anyway I'll let you know if Stein's movie sucks or not after I see it. You may not value my opinion but at least it will be my opinion and not some sound bites that were fed to me.

Cephus

It just proves that people have the ability to compartmentalize. Someone can be very rational and critical in some things they do, and completely irrational and gullible in others.

However, if someone says they are a rational person, or does things that are rational, that doesn't make their religious beliefs rational, it's just a pocket of irrationality in a sea of intellectualism.

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