Expelled! - Page 19

Hymns · 04-28-08, 03:22 PM

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Originally Posted by Cephus

So in other words, the Bible wasn't inspired by God and is just... wrong.

Thanks for admitting it.

No...there is truth to this story. They didn't make up the flood, there was a great flood. Not worldwide, mind you, but they had no way of knowing exactly how big it was, only that their area of the world was flooded. And how does that reflect on the Bible? By that same logic, since science at one time said that the world being flat was fact and was wrong, science is all wrong. How much sense does that make?

Lachean · 04-28-08, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hymns

No...there is truth to this story. They didn't make up the flood, there was a great flood. Not worldwide, mind you, but they had no way of knowing exactly how big it was, only that their area of the world was flooded.

The Euphrates floods every year, and the geological record shows that there was once a massive flooding of the Euphrates, and thus most local civilizations have a flood story in their scriptures.

Most fables and falsehoods are "based on a true story."

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Originally Posted by Hymns

And how does that reflect on the Bible?

The story isn't unique to the Bible, has been plagiarized like most Biblical stories from previous faiths, and because its based on a real flooding indicates no truth or utility value in the Noah Story.

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Originally Posted by Hymns

By that same logic, since science at one time said that the world being flat was fact and was wrong, science is all wrong. How much sense does that make?

Not exactly, since popular opinion /= science. Just because most people who regarded themselves as their age's equivalent of a scientist believed in a pseudoscience, does not in any way cast contempt on the valid scientific method.

tecoyah · 04-28-08, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hymns

No...there is truth to this story. They didn't make up the flood, there was a great flood. Not worldwide, mind you, but they had no way of knowing exactly how big it was, only that their area of the world was flooded. And how does that reflect on the Bible? By that same logic, since science at one time said that the world being flat was fact and was wrong, science is all wrong. How much sense does that make?

OK...lets say there was actually a flood...OK?

Two of every animal, 40 days and 40 nights, eight Humans repopulate the Earth, One freakin huge boat that we couldn't even build now and expect to float for a day, ....were these parts made up as well?

....and if so, which parts were actually truth?

Hymns · 04-28-08, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

OK...lets say there was actually a flood...OK?

Two of every animal, 40 days and 40 nights, eight Humans repopulate the Earth, One freakin huge boat that we couldn't even build now and expect to float for a day, ....were these parts made up as well?

....and if so, which parts were actually truth?

I'll try to find a source, but I saw a program on the National Geographic Channel about scientists who actually found evidence of and plausible causes of a massive flood in this area and time period.

Not 2 of every animal, as they can't exactly have polar bears on their, can they?
There was most likely more people who fled to higher ground or off to Asia and escaped, and they would only have to repopulate the area.

And the bible says "ark", not boat. An ark is more of a box (like ARK of the Covenant).

And how am I supposed to know what is true and what is not? And most of it is exagerated, so the line between true and false is kinda blurry.

tecoyah · 04-28-08, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hymns

I'll try to find a source, but I saw a program on the National Geographic Channel about scientists who actually found evidence of and plausible causes of a massive flood in this area and time period.

Not 2 of every animal, as they can't exactly have polar bears on their, can they?
There was most likely more people who fled to higher ground or off to Asia and escaped, and they would only have to repopulate the area.

And the bible says "ark", not boat. An ark is more of a box (like ARK of the Covenant).

And how am I supposed to know what is true and what is not? And most of it is exagerated, so the line between true and false is kinda blurry.

Got it....It's fiction.

Agreed

Cephus · 04-28-08, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hymns

They didn't make up the flood, there was a great flood. Not worldwide, mind you, but they had no way of knowing exactly how big it was, only that their area of the world was flooded.

Genesis 7:18 says: "The water covered the highest mountain by 15 cubits" (28 Feet).

The highest mountain is Mount Everest at 29,029 feet, but even if you want to limit it to the part of the world they knew, Mount Ararat is 16,854 feet tall. Because of the properties of water, water flows downward to fill the available space. That means that if the Bible story is taken seriously, the entire planet must have been flooded to at least a depth of 16,882 feet.

Or you can admit that Genesis 7:18 is wrong and the water did not, in fact, cover the highest mountain by 15 cubits.

If the Bible just said there was a big flood, that's fine. The Bible instead makes a claim that it was a worldwide flood, then reinforces that by making statements that can only apply to an actual worldwide flood. Those statements are false, there never was a worldwide flood, therefore the Bible is flawed.

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By that same logic, since science at one time said that the world being flat was fact and was wrong, science is all wrong.

Actually, it was Christianity that taught that the world was flat, it was science that discovered otherwise. Another strike against Christianity.

Cephus · 04-28-08, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hymns

I'll try to find a source, but I saw a program on the National Geographic Channel about scientists who actually found evidence of and plausible causes of a massive flood in this area and time period.

Actually, most experts think the flood myth was based on one of two events. It is thought that ancient man was referring to the real catastrophic flood around 5600 B.C. when the Mediterranean Sea broke through a wall into the massive canyon that would become the Black Sea. The other is an actual flood that happened around ancient Shuruppak around 2750 B.C.

It's unquestionable that the ancient Hebrews got much of their flood myth from the Epic of Gilgamesh. The fact is, Noah wasn't a real person at all, his name was found several times in clay tablets found at the Mesopotamian city of Mari. Noah's name turns out to be a mistranslation of the Mesopotamian goddess of rain, Nuah.

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Not 2 of every animal, as they can't exactly have polar bears on their, can they?

Yet that's what the Bible says. If you want to limit it to just the animals known in the local area, the task is still daunting, there's simply no rational way to gather, sex, categorize and care for that many animals on any size boat.

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There was most likely more people who fled to higher ground or off to Asia and escaped, and they would only have to repopulate the area.

Which pretty much makes the story of Noah a waste. Supposedly the story is that God is wiping out every human that is not on the ark. If people can just walk up the local hills and survive, what's the point of the story?

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And the bible says "ark", not boat. An ark is more of a box (like ARK of the Covenant).

Boxes are not seaworthy, especially given the dimensions in the Bible. If such a craft had ever really existed in the first place, it would have been blasted to splinters by the flood.

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And how am I supposed to know what is true and what is not?

You're supposed to think. Give it a shot.

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And most of it is exagerated, so the line between true and false is kinda blurry.

No, most of it is completely mythical. Noah never existed, neither did the ark, neither did the flood as described in Genesis. It's a collection of stories taken from ther sources that attempts to make a theological point. Why anyone takes it at all seriously today is beyond me.

Hymns · 05-14-08, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cephus

Actually, most experts think the flood myth was based on one of two events. It is thought that ancient man was referring to the real catastrophic flood around 5600 B.C. when the Mediterranean Sea broke through a wall into the massive canyon that would become the Black Sea. The other is an actual flood that happened around ancient Shuruppak around 2750 B.C.

It's unquestionable that the ancient Hebrews got much of their flood myth from the Epic of Gilgamesh. The fact is, Noah wasn't a real person at all, his name was found several times in clay tablets found at the Mesopotamian city of Mari. Noah's name turns out to be a mistranslation of the Mesopotamian goddess of rain, Nuah.

Yet that's what the Bible says. If you want to limit it to just the animals known in the local area, the task is still daunting, there's simply no rational way to gather, sex, categorize and care for that many animals on any size boat.

Which pretty much makes the story of Noah a waste. Supposedly the story is that God is wiping out every human that is not on the ark. If people can just walk up the local hills and survive, what's the point of the story?

Boxes are not seaworthy, especially given the dimensions in the Bible. If such a craft had ever really existed in the first place, it would have been blasted to splinters by the flood.

You're supposed to think. Give it a shot.

No, most of it is completely mythical. Noah never existed, neither did the ark, neither did the flood as described in Genesis. It's a collection of stories taken from ther sources that attempts to make a theological point. Why anyone takes it at all seriously today is beyond me.

Have any of you ever heard of fables and tall-tales? You know, like the fisherman who says," I swear, it was THIS big!". Stories grow pretty quickly...and this one has been growing for thousands of years. You're not supposed to take every claim as fact, but as an exageration BASED on fact. Yes, there was a large flood, but not covering the Earth. And "Noah" could have just been a shepherd or farmer who took his flock on a boat to save them.

niftydrifty · 05-14-08, 09:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Hymns

Have any of you ever heard of fables and tall-tales? You know, like the fisherman who says," I swear, it was THIS big!". Stories grow pretty quickly...and this one has been growing for thousands of years. You're not supposed to take every claim as fact, but as an exageration BASED on fact. Yes, there was a large flood, but not covering the Earth. And "Noah" could have just been a shepherd or farmer who took his flock on a boat to save them.

or it could be instructive allegory. read between the lines.

scourge99 · 05-14-08, 09:17 PM

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Originally Posted by niftydrifty

or it could be instructive allegory. read between the lines.

So no accountability? Its a true story until its inconvenient, ridiculous, etc then its an allegory. Hmmmmm, how convenient.