Hymns

Ok, what is all this about magic? Religion and magic are separate things, no matter what you say. Please stay on topic.

__________________
être et durer (to be and to last).

Voidwar

LOL no matter what I say huh ??

Assertions about intelligent design, tacitly imply magic.

When you say design, you dont mean that god used a backhoe and bulldozer to make the earth, you assert that he waved his hand, and there it was. This is spellcasting. When you say design, you don't mean that god used a DNA sequencer and cellular manipulation calipers, you asert that he waved his hand, and there was the first cell. This is spellcasting, not manufacture.

Anyone asserting any "god" is really just talking about a wizard. Their rules may allow for many wizards in the universe, or just one, but it is still belief in magic.

talloulou

That's a fairly ignorant and overly simplistic take on intelligent design. Intelligent design doesn't necessarily even assert there is a God or Gods.

obvious Child

But it is implicitly there. And the God in reference is the Christian God. The only people pushing ID are Christians. And the primary backers receive most of their funding from Christian groups many of which are backers of Literal Genesis. True, there are some branches that reject Christanity and Genesis entirely, but finding even one of them is quite rare.

Voluntary

Of course it does. How can we have ID without a designer?

Voluntary

The first cause is speculation. How can a cause exist outside of the universe?

This is a presumptions and cannot be tested.

I recognize a deist when I meet one. Despite my respect for deism, it falls short. The proof that you exist is not proof enough. Did your deistic god purposefully hurl an asteroid into our Earth to create our Moon? Did this same god purposefully create the dinosaurs, then wipe them out to allow for the evolution of intelligent life?

We are nothing but "a mode of dust suspended by a sunbeam"--Sagan.


*why does my link work in the edit screen, but not when I post?*

talloulou

Designer doesn't necessarily equate to a God or Gods. Take dogs for example. There are tons of breeds that NEVER would have come into existence on their own, Darwin style. Humans stepped in and manipulated the evolutionary process to create what we wanted. This has resulted in some very ridiculous dog breeds. Dog breeds that you would never be able to look at in a Darwin, survival of the fittest, natural selection sense. Our creation of those dog breeds does NOT make us Gods. Not even close.

Lets say there was alien life on another planet. They aren't Gods. Even if they're more advanced than us this doesn't necessarily make them "Gods" especially not in the Christian God sense. I don't think you have to turn your back on Darwin in order to be somewhat open minded to intelligent design. Knowing dogs probably wouldn't have evolved on their own to represent what we see today doesn't mean Darwin was wrong. It just means that not all evolution can be attributed to Darwin. Some of what can't be explained by evolution can be explained by manipulation and intelligent interference. Believing there may have been an intelligent designer responsible for our origins doesn't mean, necessarily, that the designer is GOD.

obvious Child

talloulou, how do you explain the issue that virtually all of the IDers are Christians, that ID insitutions like the Discovery Insitute are run, funded and organized by Christians, that virtually NO ONE RELIGIONS support ID, and that Christanity tends to outright reject panspermia?

It's hard to take your argument seriously when virtually every IDer is a Christian.

Voluntary

Cool. I believe it is a homosexual octopus.

obvious Child

I've seen Pantheists who believe the Universe is God reject Intelligent design. When those folks won't even bite, that says quite alot about the validity of Intelligent Design without a God.