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Christianity presents a greater danger to me...

Vader said:
1.) There hasn't been an abortion clinic bombing in almost 10 years. Aside from that --- THESE WERE NEVER SUICIDE BOMBINGS!@!!!!!!!@
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lol, yes, they are WORSE THAN SUICIDE BOMBINGS.
It is harder to recruit suiciders.
A suicider cannot bomb lots of places, a Christian whack-job can.

2.) Those people aren't true christians.
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And neither are the islamic EXTREMISTS. So, tit for tat, withdraw it or agree they are christians.

3.) Islamics are brainwashed from birth --- Christians are not.
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Insane. Christians are also brainwashed from birth, most religions do this.

4.) Christians are allowed to change religions -- Islam-apes are not allowed to change religions (the get murdered if they do)
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Blatantly false.
However, if we accepted that nonsense as true, we're not Islamists, so this is no danger to us.

-Mach
 
Mach said:
lol, yes, they are WORSE THAN SUICIDE BOMBINGS.
It is harder to recruit suiciders.
A suicider cannot bomb lots of places, a Christian whack-job can.
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Then why is there literally a 500,000%, 5000 for ever 1 that is, disproportion of islamic suicide bombers to christian unibombers?

Reality says you are wrong. It is not harder to recruit suicide bombers.


And neither are the islamic EXTREMISTS. So, tit for tat, withdraw it or agree they are christians.
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Christian unibobmers are so far removed from the mainstream it is incomprehensible to even equate them as Christian Extemists. It's like saying Timothy McVeigh was 1/16th native american and thought, in his own mind, that the US deserved being bombed for what it had done to native america; and then go on to use that as a reason to believe being native american leads to bombings, or being a "NATIVE AMERICAN EXTREMIST" means someone who commits terror bombings. It's simply pathetic.

I am getting tired at how this forum blatantly equivocates "extremism."

I have pointed out before that Christian extremists are those who are politically incorrect and Islamic extremists are those who blow themselves up to kill those who disagree.

Here is a good question for everyone. We all know the Falwells and Pat Robertsons among this nation are casually called Christian extemists. I have no idea why but it still stands that they are labeled this. What if Barack ever becomes a devout Muslim and he inteprets a few parts of the Koran in an exteme way. It can be for good or worse, it doesn't matter in this question how he inteprets it, just that he does and does so in an exteme way. Do we now call Barack Obama... an Islamic Extremist???

I'll bet you anything we won't. The term is unfairly used.


Insane. Christians are also brainwashed from birth, most religions do this.
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Children being told they have a mortal enemy who does not deserve to live and it is most desireable to kill themselves while killing others who disagree is not the same as asking to devote a life to peaceably saving someone's soul from eternal damnation. If you disagree you are lying.

Do you also think teaching proper societal and human conduct is brainwashing?


Blatantly false.
However, if we accepted that nonsense as true, we're not Islamists, so this is no danger to us.

-Mach
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Find me any discrepancy where it suggests to kill apostates in the Bible. After you realize you can't, I will give you some from islamic texts and we'll see who's blatantly false here Mach.
 
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Christians are not brainwashed from birth? Yeah right. You are trying to tell that to someone who lives in the Bible Belt. Bullshit. :roll:
 
Have you even READ the bible?

A_Wise_Fool said:
Find me any discrepancy where it suggests to kill apostates in the Bible. After you realize you can't, I will give you some from islamic texts and we'll see who's blatantly false here Mach.
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Are you kidding me, I could find at least a dozen in just ONE book: Deuteronomy

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

I eagerly anticipate your rebuttal, let me guess, "Well... uhh... find one in the New Testament!"
 
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Kali said:
What about people like David Koresh or Jim Jones? :confused:
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You name two people and thats your support...your talking about twisted people, not a religion that promises virgins in the promise land for killing "infedels"

Watch the news and your will see on the in iraq an everyday occurances of muslims killing innocent people.
 
A_Wise_Fool said:
Then why is there literally a 500,000%, 5000 for ever 1 that is, disproportion of islamic suicide bombers to christian unibombers?
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Literally? Is that a factual historical account or something we should take on faith perhaps.

Christian unibobmers are so far removed from the mainstream it is incomprehensible to even equate them as Christian Extemists. I am getting tired at how this forum blatantly equivocates "extremism."
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Far removed from mainstream or outside of common ethics = extremist.
I know GWB likes to re-defined words to serve his hillbilly agenda, but it doesn't fly on a philosophy forum.

Here is a good question for everyone. We all know the Falwells and Pat Robertsons among this nation are casually called Christian extemists.
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Yes, they are extremists. Really the bible itself is the source of ththat particular strain of extremism, and most fundamentalists claim they follow it literally, but realy don't. In the case that they do, they are no doubt extremists. If they don't, but claim they do, they are just mainstream liars claiming to be extremists. I can't tell which, nor do I really care.

Children being told they have a mortal enemy who does not deserve to live and it is most desireable to kill themselves while killing others who disagree is not the same as asking to devote a life to peaceably saving someone's soul from eternal damnation. If you disagree you are lying.
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But whats' worse. Dying in this mortal life or being damned for all eternity? Now you tell me who preaches the lesser evil. I love the infinite contradictions of religions. Really, I don't.

Do you also think teaching proper societal and human conduct is brainwashing?
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Of course. Proper societal conduct? Oh my. Who's going to teach it, you? Maybe Falwell? Lordy. Brainwashing children is acceptable if and only if you make a serious attempt later to teach them how to think for themselves, once they have developed enough to be trusted with it. For some, they raise their kids this way from day one. that too is acceptable. for many religions, they tell their child if they disagree with the religion, they are wrong, or worse, they are excommunicated from the family. amish, scientology, need we go on?

Find me any discrepancy where it suggests to kill apostates in the Bible. After you realize you can't, I will give you some from islamic texts and we'll see who's blatantly false here Mach.
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What are you referring to? I'm stating that all people who leave Islam do not die as a direct result of leaving islam. But all islamic people die eventually die.

-Mach
 
SmilesAndFrowns said:
You name two people and thats your support...your talking about twisted people, not a religion that promises virgins in the promise land for killing "infedels"

Watch the news and your will see on the in iraq an everyday occurances of muslims killing innocent people.
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But people like Fred Phelps would do worse if they thought they could get away with it. Just my thoughts. These crazy fundies scare me:3oops:

Also the entire basis of the Christian religion is based on fear and terror! Do not follow as some God in the sky says and you are doomed to a firepit. If that is not terrorism what is? :shock:
 
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Mach said:
lol, yes, they are WORSE THAN SUICIDE BOMBINGS.
It is harder to recruit suiciders.
A suicider cannot bomb lots of places, a Christian whack-job can.
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Now you're defending islamic extremists. The whole point of this paragraph was to illustrate that christians do not blow themselves up ... while Islamists clearly do.

Mach said:
And neither are the islamic EXTREMISTS. So, tit for tat, withdraw it or agree they are christians.
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Yet your people support (materially and emotionally) the very extremists you claim are not really islamic. 99.99999999999% of Christians DO NOT provide aid and comfort to terrorists; Islamics clearly do. Nothing you can do, nor any rhetoric you post will ever change this fact.

Mach said:
Insane. Christians are also brainwashed from birth, most religions do this.
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Yes, Islamic interference in government and schools is insane. I am glad you realize this.

Mach said:
Blatantly false.
However, if we accepted that nonsense as true, we're not Islamists, so this is no danger to us.
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There is NOTHING false about it. In Saudi Arabia Islam is the ONLY legal religion. Switching is punishable by death or many years in prison. In Afghanistan, converting away from Islam is an INSTANT death sentence.

None of the rhetoric you're spewing will EVER change these facts. You may deny it, lie about it, and claim whatever you will; however, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE TRUTH.

:mrgreen:
 
Kali said:
But people like Fred Phelps would do worse if they thought they could get away with it. Just my thoughts. These crazy fundies scare me:3oops:

Also the entire basis of the Christian religion is based on fear and terror! Do not follow as some God in the sky says and you are doomed to a firepit. If that is not terrorism what is? :shock:
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Fred Phelps is a lunatic --- I do not deny this ... but then again so is Muqtada Al Sadr, Aminajad, and the rest of Iran's governing wackos.
 
But, I would have to say the extremes are what everyone is trying to point out. But as far as whole for both christian and islamic neither are as dangerous as the "anti-american, christian/islamic or whatever religion they supposedly follow" I think to claim any religion as a greater danger is the wrong arguement, because anybody can bubble in christian or islamic or jewish or whatever it maybe be in that section, doesnt mean they really are a student of that religion...
 
"Fundamentalist Christian" does have a very specific definition which is NOT "anybody who does stuff I don't like." Perhaps you should aquaint yourself with what exactly a fundamentalist Christian is.

Having done so, you would be hard pressed to prove that a fundamentalist Christian is a "hypocrite" (if you even know what a hypocrite is).

And that "Conservatives are all hypocrites, conservative Christians are all hypocrites, therefore all conservatives are fundamentalist Christians" reasoning defies logic.

And BTW, I am NOT a fundamentalist Christian, so don't bother to paint me with that ill-understood charge. If you knew what a fundamentalist Christian really was and studied my profile for two seconds, you would understand why.
 
Lachean said:
Are you kidding me, I could find at least a dozen in just ONE book: Deuteronomy
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Lets see.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
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This has nothing to do with apostates. It is rejecting a verdict of a court.


If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
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This is aimed at someone tempting another to be led astray. Not exclusive to an apostate at all.

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
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Not entirely clear but it does look as though it means to kill those who have turned away.


Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
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This one is clear. It does say to kill someone who has turned away.


I eagerly anticipate your rebuttal, let me guess, "Well... uhh... find one in the New Testament!"[/B]
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I was wrong. I was being hasty and did not recheck what I was saying which I usually do. Moreover I am more upset that I did not catch myself over something that simple. It would go to follow that if someone is to be stoned to death over infidelity then turning away from God would likewise warrant the same.



Your webpage which you copied and pasted these from forgot to mention a few other relevant verses though. Such as in the New Testament where it states no Christian is required to follow the old covenant, meaning the Old Testament itself:

(The 'Law' refers to the Torah, or any command in the Old Testament covenant)

Galatians 3
19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.


Romans 10:3-4
3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.


Hebrews 8:7-13
7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."[c]

13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
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It's not just happenstance that there is not widespread stoning of prostitutes by Chrisians when the Bible instructs to do that. The New Testament says we are no longer to follow those laws. However, there is something more to this:

Matthew 5
(Jesus Speaking)
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
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By Christ fulfilling the Law, it was finished. It still fundamentally there, as it says it will not dissapear, but its now complete and applied differently. We are still to follow the law but the consequences of breaking the law have been sacrificially atoned for by Christ's death on the cross. Thus we no longer need to punish those who break the law, but forgive them as Christ does.


Any 'fundamentalst extemist' who uses the old testament for justification of violence is not being fundamental at all, its just total ignorance of essentially half of what the Bible says and there is no way around it.
 
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Vader said:
Now you're defending islamic extremists. The whole point of this paragraph was to illustrate that christians do not blow themselves up ... while Islamists clearly do.
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No, I'm simply pointing out that religious people historically, and currently, kill others, some in the name of their religion. Whether or not they die doing so is really irrelavant to the danger it poses to me. As I pointed out, I'd prefer everyone who took a life to at least die. That would save us all the worry of hunting them down ourselves.

Yet your people support (materially and emotionally) the very extremists you claim are not really islamic. 99.99999999999% of Christians DO NOT provide aid and comfort to terrorists; Islamics clearly do. Nothing you can do, nor any rhetoric you post will ever change this fact.
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Who are my people? You mean gods?

Yes, Islamic interference in government and schools is insane. I am glad you realize this.
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Yes, but the issue is not ISLAMIC intereference in gov and schools, it's RELIGIOUS interference in gov. and schools. The U.S. rightfully does not permit this. But it has NOTHING to do with ISLAM. It's the government, you know, the empire.

There is NOTHING false about it. In Saudi Arabia Islam is the ONLY legal religion. Switching is punishable by death or many years in prison. In Afghanistan, converting away from Islam is an INSTANT death sentence.
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Yet this is again comments about the evil empire (the government). The religion doesn't magically kill people if they reject it. Two entirely different points to make.

None of the rhetoric you're spewing will EVER change these facts. You may deny it, lie about it, and claim whatever you will; however, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE TRUTH.
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I'm being serious where it counts. These countries have problems, namely religion being allowed in government. Yes, Christianity in government leads to similar problems. Any religion really (well, within reason).

-Mach
 
I was wrong. I was being hasty and did not recheck what I was saying which I usually do.
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I don't even know what this was about but seeing statements like this help restore a little belief in humanity. That's what the thank you was for.

-Mach
 
"Religion" does not exist as a distinct entity in of itself, it merley reflects the culture which practices it. if nice people, not southern cavemen, practiced evangelical christianity, it would be nice. if nice people, not Arab cavement, practiced Wahabi Islam, it would be nice.
 
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