Baptism????

WI Crippler · 10-17-07, 12:19 PM

Ok, when I was a kid I grew up in a very right-wing church(not sure if it was really even christian) that was only outdone by my uber-conservative step-father. However to its credit, they did not perform baptism on newborn children or children in general. They waited until someone was of adult age for baptism, if they chose to be.

Now I never did get baptized as the church folded like a chair(thankfully) before I was of the age to decide. So now, when I tell people that I was never baptized I get incredulous looks as if I have just been damned to an eternity of hell. Keep in mind, the people who are "concerned" aren't even very religious people to begin with. These are people I have spent time with puking our guts out on someones lawn at 3AM, people who cuss, drink, do "recreational" drugs, have affairs. And they aren't trying to hide any of it either. But when they hear I haven't been baptized, they look at me like I am crazy.

What gives? Is baptism some short cut to salvation? Basically does a symbolic ceremony save you from the depths of hell? Once the Priest does whatever he does, is it out of Gods hands to judge you according to your deeds? "I know he killed 5 people, but damnit he was baptized, nothing I can do about that".

I just don't understand the significance of it.

The Baron · 10-17-07, 09:55 PM

I’ve known adults who were baptized and it surprised me only in the sense that I thought they had already been baptized. Since I was baptized as a kid, I suppose I just kinda expected others to have done the same (although that’s far from the truth).

Like you, there were reasons that they never got around to it. But being baptized does not determine your place in eternity. Only your relationship with Christ will settle it.

Acts 2:38 says that we are to be baptized in Christ’s name and I would encourage you to find a good, Bible-believing church (if you don’t already belong to one) and get baptized.

If, however, you choose not to there is nothing in the Scriptures (that I’m aware of) that condemns you for it.

All you need is Christ.

Period.

chevydriver1123 · 10-18-07, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Ok, when I was a kid I grew up in a very right-wing church(not sure if it was really even christian) that was only outdone by my uber-conservative step-father. However to its credit, they did not perform baptism on newborn children or children in general. They waited until someone was of adult age for baptism, if they chose to be.

Now I never did get baptized as the church folded like a chair(thankfully) before I was of the age to decide. So now, when I tell people that I was never baptized I get incredulous looks as if I have just been damned to an eternity of hell. Keep in mind, the people who are "concerned" aren't even very religious people to begin with. These are people I have spent time with puking our guts out on someones lawn at 3AM, people who cuss, drink, do "recreational" drugs, have affairs. And they aren't trying to hide any of it either. But when they hear I haven't been baptized, they look at me like I am crazy.

What gives? Is baptism some short cut to salvation? Basically does a symbolic ceremony save you from the depths of hell? Once the Priest does whatever he does, is it out of Gods hands to judge you according to your deeds? "I know he killed 5 people, but damnit he was baptized, nothing I can do about that".

I just don't understand the significance of it.

As far as I know Baptism (in the Catholic Church anyway) is part of bringing you into the fold sort of speak. I was baptised when I was two and apparently your supposed to get it again when your 18 but I left religion when I turned 18. Havent looked back since and I have yet to comit some henious crime.

Felicity · 10-21-07, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

I just don't understand the significance of it.

Well...it matters if you consider yourself Christian. The Christian Holy Book addresses it often...here are a few Bible verses on the topic:

Matthew 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

Mark 16:15: And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16: He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned

Acts 2:38: And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39: For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
40: And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation."
41: So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Romans 6:3: Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4: We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.5: For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1st Peter 3:21: Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

And, here's a link to a fair source:

Christian baptism: All sides to the issue
By Pauline Christians: This was the movement founded by Paul who established a network of churches around the Mediterranean Sea. In order to become a Christian, an individual passed through the following sequence: He/she became a convert to Christianity
They studied Christianity for a lengthy period
They were baptized. This ritual had two main results: their sins were washed away, and
they became indwelt by the Holy Spirit

The early 1st and 2nd century church's belief that baptism ritual washed away the Christian's sins was based on a number of biblical passages: Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21, and others. The belief that baptism led to salvation and an indwelling of the Holy Spirit was based on John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Galatians 3:26-28, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and other verses. These beliefs of the early church were confirmed by the direct teachings of the Apostles, or by individuals like Polycarp of Smyrna (~69 - ~155 CE) who had been directly taught by one or more apostles, or by individuals like Ireneaus (~130 - ~200 CE), a pupil of Polycarp. Many theologians feel that the 2nd century church continued with reasonable accuracy the beliefs and practices of primitive Pauline Christianity of the 1st century.

Some statements confirming the belief in the regenerative nature of baptism and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a result of baptism are seen in the writings of the early church Fathers:

Justin Martyr (~100 to ~165 CE): Discussing how a Christian obtains God's promises: "There is no other [way] than this - to become acquainted with Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of since, and for the remainder, to live sinless lives." 3

Ireneaus (~130 - ~200 CE): "As we are lepers in sin, we are made clean from our old transgressions by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord. We are thus spiritually regenerated as newborn infants, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' " 4 The "invocation of the Lord" may refer to the phrase "Jesus is Lord" which the initiate said during baptism.

Bishop Cyprian of Carthage (~200 - 258 CE): "But later, by the help of the water of new birth, the stain of former years was washed away, and a light from above -- serene and pure -- was infused into my reconciled heart. Then through the Spirit breathed from heaven, a second birth restored me to a new man." 5 He describes that baptism canceled his sins, the Holy Spirit indwelt his body, he was born again, and changed his behavior.

Pauline Christianity eventually became the main Christian church, centered in Rome.

1069 · 10-21-07, 05:56 PM

I was baptized at birth, or shortly thereafter.
As far as I know, yes, it's one of the sacraments considered necessary for "salvation".
But not the only one.
In other words, you aren't getting into heaven without it, but it's also not all you have to do to get into heaven.
Baptism is when you get your godparents.
Don't protestants have godparents?
Because they get baptized much later in life, correct?

mikhail · 10-21-07, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069

I was baptized at birth, or shortly thereafter.
As far as I know, yes, it's one of the sacraments considered necessary for "salvation".
But not the only one.
In other words, you aren't getting into heaven without it, but it's also not all you have to do to get into heaven.
Baptism is when you get your godparents.
Don't protestants have godparents?
Because they get baptized much later in life, correct?

Yep some guy has to put a bit of water on someones head for them to be saved cant just have riff raff in heaven.

The Baron · 10-25-07, 11:31 PM

“I was baptized at birth, or shortly thereafter.
As far as I know, yes, it's one of the sacraments considered necessary for ‘salvation’.
But not the only one.
In other words, you aren't getting into heaven without it, but it's also not all you have to do to get into heaven.
Baptism is when you get your godparents.
Don't protestants have godparents?
Because they get baptized much later in life, correct?” – 1069

As I understand it, in the Catholic tradition (and to the best of my knowledge, only in the Catholic tradition) do you have to be baptized to receive “salvation”.

In the Protestant tradition, baptism is considered important but unnecessary for salvation. In the Protestant tradition, Believers are baptized later in life in what is called a “Believer’s baptism”.

The idea here is that your baptism is a public acknowledgement of your decision to accept Christ as Lord and Savior. As such, the Believer must be able to understand his / her decision (something that an infant is incapable of doing and so infants are not baptized). Even young children who desire baptism are questioned carefully about their understanding of salvation prior to being baptized.

As far as godparents are concerned, I think this is primarily a Catholic tradition although I am not aware of anything that prevents godparents from being named in the Protestant traditions.

SouthernDemocrat · 10-26-07, 12:17 PM

In so far as Christianity is concerned, Baptism is a should do, not a have to do. Salvation is dependent on one accepting Christ as their redeemer and being repentant of their sins. Depending on the denomination, Baptism is simply an outward sign of that acceptance, or a sacrament in that it is a way that one receives the grace of God.

Dragonfly · 10-26-07, 02:34 PM

Is it possible to "officially" un-baptize yourself?

If my parents did it to me, but I don't want it, can I somehow remove it?

Should I start an un-baptism service?
Might there be money in such a thing?

Any of you bastards steal my idea, and I'll hunt you down with all manner of vengeance and hostility.

independent_thinker2002 · 10-26-07, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Is it possible to "officially" un-baptize yourself?

If my parents did it to me, but I don't want it, can I somehow remove it?

Should I start an un-baptism service?
Might there be money in such a thing?

Any of you bastards steal my idea, and I'll hunt you down with all manner of vengeance and hostility.

I don't know, but I'll sell you a purgatory card.