Top Ten Signs You Are A Fundamental Christian.

Hatuey · Oct 20, 2006

I wanted to find out if this was actually in anyway true. If it looks like I'm trying to flame somebody I'm not I'm just trying to figure out how many of the christians here have any of these qualities. Please be honest.

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

tecoyah · Oct 20, 2006

Hatuey said:
I wanted to find out if this was actually in anyway true. If it looks like I'm trying to flame somebody I'm not I'm just trying to figure out how many of the christians here have any of these qualities. Please be honest.

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Regardless of your feeble attempt to make this seem an honest question.....you know Damn well its a slam on Christians. Seriously....if you intend to point out the Ignorance of one faith or another, at least be honest about it, You know...like this:

The above list pretty much defines hardcore Christian Fundys, They will deny it, but even most Christians know it to be true. It brings a smile to my face to dwell in superior intellect far above such complete blindness to reality.

Rhapsody1447 · Oct 20, 2006

Hatuey said:
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

Yes, I vigorously deny the existence of other gods (thousands, are you talking ancient mythology?), but no, I do not feel outraged, I am empathetic and try to help the person see the light.

Hatuey said:
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

I merely laugh at the myth of evolution, anyone with half a brain can deduce that the theory of evolution is dead. Read the last 5 chapters of "Godless" by Ann Coulter.

Hatuey said:
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

The holy trinity is a very tricky subject even for top scholars and theologians, you have to understand Christianity is still a monotheistic belief, and holds that there is only one true God. I don't recall myself "laughing" at polytheists.

Hatuey said:
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

YOU need to read your Bible, my friend. God/Jehovah didn't kill all the babies in Egypt, Pharoah did. I would love to hear/see the verses where God wipes out entire enthnic groups including women, children, and trees.

Hatuey said:
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

Do not take the fact that Mary was supernaturally impregnated as her having sex with God. You can demonize the foundation of the Christian religion all you want but it doesn't make for a very good debate.

Hatuey said:
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

Wrong, I am not looking for loopholes about the age of the Earth, I believe that the seven days of creation were not a literal 24 hours, we cannot possibly fathom how time relates to God as compared to us. I believe that a "day" to God could mean over 1,000 to us. I have never even heard about these Bronze Age tribesman, got a link?

Hatuey said:
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

All of those who fall short of the glory of God, will experience eternal seperation of God. That it is why our goal is to spread the Gospel to all four corners of the Earth. When the two most important commandments in a religion are "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and "Love the Lord your God will all you heart, mind, and soul." I would say that is much more "tolerant" and "loving" then "kill the infidels."

Hatuey said:
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

What is this? An "idiot" rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" isn't all the evidence I need to "prove" Christianity. Once you have experienced the presence and love of the Holy Spirit, nothing in this world could disprove my faith. Please point out what modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics has disproved the Christian faith?

Hatuey said:
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

What are these numbers? Where did you get these? Anyone who truly understands the word, knows that God doesn't answer your every whim and desire. "Let not my will be done, but yours (something like that =))."

Hatuey said:
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

What a sweeping generalization! I have friends who have read the Bible over 50 times, while my "atheist" friends refuse to crack the spine.

jfuh · Oct 20, 2006

Rhapsody1447 said:
Yes, I vigorously deny the existence of other gods (thousands, are you talking ancient mythology?), but no, I do not feel outraged, I am empathetic and try to help the person see the light.

I merely laugh at the myth of evolution, anyone with half a brain can deduce that the theory of evolution is dead. Read the last 5 chapters of "Godless" by Ann Coulter.

The holy trinity is a very tricky subject even for top scholars and theologians, you have to understand Christianity is still a monotheistic belief, and holds that there is only one true God. I don't recall myself "laughing" at polytheists.

YOU need to read your Bible, my friend. God/Jehovah didn't kill all the babies in Egypt, Pharoah did. I would love to hear/see the verses where God wipes out entire enthnic groups including women, children, and trees.

Do not take the fact that Mary was supernaturally impregnated as her having sex with God. You can demonize the foundation of the Christian religion all you want but it doesn't make for a very good debate.

Wrong, I am not looking for loopholes about the age of the Earth, I believe that the seven days of creation were not a literal 24 hours, we cannot possibly fathom how time relates to God as compared to us. I believe that a "day" to God could mean over 1,000 to us. I have never even heard about these Bronze Age tribesman, got a link?

All of those who fall short of the glory of God, will experience eternal seperation of God. That it is why our goal is to spread the Gospel to all four corners of the Earth. When the two most important commandments in a religion are "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and "Love the Lord your God will all you heart, mind, and soul." I would say that is much more "tolerant" and "loving" then "kill the infidels."

What is this? An "idiot" rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" isn't all the evidence I need to "prove" Christianity. Once you have experienced the presence and love of the Holy Spirit, nothing in this world could disprove my faith. Please point out what modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics has disproved the Christian faith?

What are these numbers? Where did you get these? Anyone who truly understands the word, knows that God doesn't answer your every whim and desire. "Let not my will be done, but yours (something like that =))."

What a sweeping generalization! I have friends who have read the Bible over 50 times, while my "atheist" friends refuse to crack the spine.

:lamo funny post; see the light :lamo

Mach · Oct 20, 2006

Rhapsody1447 said:
I merely laugh at the myth of evolution, anyone with half a brain can deduce that the theory of evolution is dead. Read the last 5 chapters of "Godless" by Ann Coulter.

I would agree. Anyone with half a brain would deny the fact of evolution, the fact that it's the cornerstone for modern biological science, one of the most important discoveries of modern time, and is evidenced even right now, as I type, and as you read, within your own body, as your immune system, through a process described as evolution, creates molecules to combat foreign invaders in your body (like knowledge...jab).

And anyone with half a brain would believe anything out of the mouth of Ann Coulter, who is someone who writes and speaks specifically to make a living (she does well at making money), but who uses rhetoric to entertain, not to be taken seriously by any thinking individual.

If you're getting your science from Ann Coulter, you sir, have issues.
Do this for me. Next time you're really sick, I mean, life threateningly sick, go have Ann Coulter fix you up. Maybe she'll have you read chapter 6 or something. And no I don't wish any real harm on you, just making a point.

-Mach

Spartacus FPV · Oct 20, 2006

Rhapsody1447 said:
Yes, I vigorously deny the existence of other gods (thousands, are you talking ancient mythology?), but no, I do not feel outraged, I am empathetic and try to help the person see the light.

See the light? Try to help? This very statement is the reason why anyone will smell that condescending sanctimonious **** coming a mile away.

Rhapsody1447 said:
I merely laugh at the myth of evolution, anyone with half a brain can deduce that the theory of evolution is dead. Read the last 5 chapters of "Godless" by Ann Coulter.

A great many people with 2 halves of a brain have made no such deduction. Based on what facts should one arrive to such conclusion, Ann Coulter offers none. The fact that you consider he an authority at all instead of the whole of the scientific community when it comes to matters of science, is shocking and very telling at the same time.

Rhapsody1447 said:
The holy trinity is a very tricky subject even for top scholars and theologians, you have to understand Christianity is still a monotheistic belief, and holds that there is only one true God. I don't recall myself "laughing" at polytheists.

Then what is your opinion of the god Apollo, and those who would worship him.

Rhapsody1447 said:
YOU need to read your Bible, my friend. God/Jehovah didn't kill all the babies in Egypt, Pharoah did. I would love to hear/see the verses where God wipes out entire enthnic groups including women, children, and trees.

Oh so it was Ramses who caused the 10th plague and not god? I must have gotten than story backwards then... So god was Pharoah?

Next time dont presume to tell someone their own level of biblical understanding.

Rhapsody1447 said:
Do not take the fact that Mary was supernaturally impregnated as her having sex with God. You can demonize the foundation of the Christian religion all you want but it doesn't make for a very good debate.

Actually it makes for great debate, although one side typically doesnt want much to do with facts, history or logic.

Rhapsody1447 said:
Wrong, I am not looking for loopholes about the age of the Earth, I believe that the seven days of creation were not a literal 24 hours, we cannot possibly fathom how time relates to God as compared to us. I believe that a "day" to God could mean over 1,000 to us.

How is that not poking holes? A day is not a subjective term, and the scribes of "God's word" should have known that, or were liars. I say its the latter.

Rhapsody1447 said:
All of those who fall short of the glory of God, will experience eternal seperation of God. That it is why our goal is to spread the Gospel to all four corners of the Earth. When the two most important commandments in a religion are "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and "Love the Lord your God will all you heart, mind, and soul." I would say that is much more "tolerant" and "loving" then "kill the infidels."

You're cherry picking, one can easily quote violent scripture.

Rhapsody1447 said:
What is this? An "idiot" rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" isn't all the evidence I need to "prove" Christianity. Once you have experienced the presence and love of the Holy Spirit, nothing in this world could disprove my faith. Please point out what modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics has disproved the Christian faith?

Fossils, carbon dating, the entire historical record of our planet, the fact that no one can survive in the belly of a whale, etc... should I really go on?

Rhapsody1447 said:
What are these numbers? Where did you get these? Anyone who truly understands the word, knows that God doesn't answer your every whim and desire. "Let not my will be done, but yours (something like that =))."

Its "Thy will be done," and you missed his point. Either god is a prime mover and does not meddle in our affairs or he has a plan and does meddle in our affairs. "God's plan" pre-supposes that prayers will not be answered.

Rhapsody1447 said:
What a sweeping generalization! I have friends who have read the Bible over 50 times, while my "atheist" friends refuse to crack the spine.

I guess one sweeping generalization deserves another...

ngdawg · Oct 21, 2006

Fossils, carbon dating, the entire historical record of our planet, the fact that no one can survive in the belly of a whale, etc... should I really go on?

And don't forget the pillar of salt....still waiting on the scientific studies on that phenomenon to be completed:mrgreen: And the strength of a man related to his hairstyle... (well, that might have some validity:mrgreen: )
Recent fertility breakthroughs have brought the ages of women carrying full term pregnancies into their 60's....in time I well suspect they will be able to do so well into their 500's LOL

Jerry · Oct 22, 2006

Hatuey said:
I wanted to find out if this was actually in anyway true. If it looks like I'm trying to flame somebody I'm not I'm just trying to figure out how many of the christians here have any of these qualities. Please be honest.

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

Oooo a line-by-liner....

I'm a Fundi, please allow me to address your top 10.

Hatuey said:
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

This is not a fundi view.
If other gods did not exist, than God would not have created a commandment against worshiping them.

These other gods are either Nefilim, personified Jungian archetypes, or legendary humans.

Hatuey said:
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

Rather one feels a given emotional response to evolution is highly subjective to that individual. I acknowledge that current evolution theory regarding Man is mainstream science’s current, best attempt to understand our origins based on the evidence socially acceptable to the popular scientific community.

To say that the biblical claim is that we were created from literal dirt is to say that current evolution theory says that we evolved from dirt.

The word "dirt" or "dust" is how you represent genetics and complex biology to a people who either do not have or lost an advanced understanding of such sciences.

Hatuey said:
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

This is not a Fundi view.

Hatuey said:
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

My face only turns purple when I'm on the pot after eating too many bananas :shock:

Hatuey said:
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

Greek claims about gods sleeping with women is independent verification of biblical accounts to the same. For example:

Genesis 6:4;
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

Greek gods are "the heroes of old, men of renown".
Greek gods are Nefilim. They were physically present on the earth. They took human wives. They produced hybrid children.

And if you will note, Zeus locked up the gods for rebellion, just as God locked up the Nefilim for rebellion.

The bible and the Greeks are talking about the exact same events with the exact same people.

Hatuey said:
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

This is not a Fundi view.
This is a Literalist view.
Not all fundies are Literalists.

Hatuey said:
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

This is not a Fundi view.
This is a Literalist view.

Hatuey said:
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

This is not a Fundi view.
This is an Evangelical view, primarily held by Evangelical Baptists and similar.

Hatuey said:
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

I have not come across any statistics in this regard. Please link the source.

I'm not a statistics expert, but shouldn’t prayers be perceived as "answered" by, say, %25 of the time, out of mere chance of the prayed for thing coming to pass for unrelated reasons?

Hatuey said:
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

A relatively superior quantity of knowledge of scripture is not an established requirement to be a Christian.

It would even be fair to say that a hypothetical person who only heard about Jesus while growing up, and knows not a single word of the bible, could accurately call himself a Christian if he accepts Jesus.

***
There are 5 beliefes, a litmis test, which qualify one as a Fundi:
1. Inerrancy of the Scriptures
2. The virgin birth and the deity of Jesus
3. The doctrine of substitutionary atonement through God's grace and human faith
4. The bodily resurrection of Jesus
5. The authenticity of Christ's miracles (or, alternatively, his premillennial second coming)

Morrow · Oct 23, 2006

I have to say to those who attacked this post that you seem so insecure that you can't have a sense of humor about things. This list is hilarious, lighten up!

Rhapsody1447 · Oct 23, 2006

Lachean said:
See the light? Try to help? This very statement is the reason why anyone will smell that condescending sanctimonious **** coming a mile away.

The fact that you get so offended, so butthurt by this statement shows me that you definitely need a hug. If you want condescending read the OP.

Lachean said:
A great many people with 2 halves of a brain have made no such deduction. Based on what facts should one arrive to such conclusion, Ann Coulter offers none. The fact that you consider he an authority at all instead of the whole of the scientific community when it comes to matters of science, is shocking and very telling at the same time.

Ignorant "hate Coulter" statements. You didn't even read her facts and research about evolution. Coulter simply saved me the time of researching it. The theory of evolution is fading, scientists are realizing that it is simply impossible and are looking to embrace diffrent methods. (I'll try and get a link tomorrow, it is too late!)

Lachean said:
Then what is your opinion of the god Apollo, and those who would worship him.

I have never met one of these people, nor know the specifics of their beliefs. What is your point?

Lachean said:
Oh so it was Ramses who caused the 10th plague and not god? I must have gotten than story backwards then... So god was Pharoah?

Next time dont presume to tell someone their own level of biblical understanding.

I am sorry, when he said babies I thought he was talking about when Pharoah had every firstborn baby killed. (When Moses' was born) The 10th plague killed all the FIRSTborn in Egypt, it must have been a misprint.

Lachean said:
Actually it makes for great debate, although one side typically doesnt want much to do with facts, history or logic.

What facts? What history? I believe there are things in this world superceding logic, and human understanding.

Lachean said:
How is that not poking holes? A day is not a subjective term, and the scribes of "God's word" should have known that, or were liars. I say its the latter.

Your right! And when John wrote Revelation describing the Beast, and Heaven he should have known that we would take it 100% literally. No he was just lying, because he wanted to join the mass conspiracy of Christianity!

Lachean said:
You're cherry picking, one can easily quote violent scripture.

You are probaly referring to God's judgement? Please point out where in the Bible it instructs me to inflict harm on my fellow man.

Lachean said:
Fossils, carbon dating, the entire historical record of our planet, the fact that no one can survive in the belly of a whale, etc... should I really go on?

What you are saying is that the miracles of Jesus are scientifically impossible. This doesn't disprove Christianity, this is apart of the belief system, supernatural intervention occurred in the Bible, and is still occurring today. Plus, not once does the fossil record disprove events described in the Bible, it actually tends to DISprove evolution (read her book).

Lachean said:
Its "Thy will be done," and you missed his point. Either god is a prime mover and does not meddle in our affairs or he has a plan and does meddle in our affairs. "God's plan" pre-supposes that prayers will not be answered.

Of course it doesn't pre-suppose that prayers will not be answered, you have to understand that not every whim, and desire someone throws up in a prayer will occur. Prayers that occur with the right state of heart, intention, and amount of faith, as long as they do not contradict God's will (Lord, will you please make Lachean die tonightwill, for obvious reasons will not be answered) will be answered. Proposing that God does not meddle in our affairs is asinine, many times the Bible references, God entering our hearts, and the influence of the Holy Spirit in our lives. The fact that He sent his Son to earth to die for us, shows he "meddles in our affairs". The OP just pulled those "statistics" out of his ***, so can we really trust anything he says?

Lachean said:
I guess one sweeping generalization deserves another...

If you knew what a generalization was, you would know that I didn't make one. I drew a direct example of the people I know, and from personal experiences. The OP on the other hand, assumed knowledge of ALL the atheists, and ALL the Christians in the world.

I probaly have a lot of typos, and grammarical issues.... it's 3 AM.

Jerry · Oct 24, 2006

Morrow said:
I have to say to those who attacked this post that you seem so insecure that you can't have a sense of humor about things. This list is hilarious, lighten up!

If this thread is a humor peace, then it should have been made in Off Topic forums/"On the Lighter Side" sub-forum.

As it was made in the Political forums / "Religion & Philosophy" sub-forum, it is taken seriously.

Hatuey · Oct 24, 2006

I have to say to those who attacked this post that you seem so insecure that you can't have a sense of humor about things. This list is hilarious, lighten up!

I actually wanted to find out if there were any people with the qualities described on the list. If people got offended then I guess you're just insecure about your religious beliefs.

kal-el · Oct 24, 2006

Jerry said:
If this thread is a humor peace, then it should have been made in Off Topic forums/"On the Lighter Side" sub-forum.

As it was made in the Political forums / "Religion & Philosophy" sub-forum, it is taken seriously.

I made a thread like this in March. It was cast into the basement.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/sewer/9563-top-10-signs-youre-fundamentalist-christian.html

Jerry · Oct 24, 2006

kal-el said:
I made a thread like this in March. It was cast into the basement.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/sewer/9563-top-10-signs-youre-fundamentalist-christian.html

Wow, the majority of the arguments on that site are easily shot down.

And coming from me, that's saying something :doh :lol:

I hope no one actually uses Evil Bible as a serious source for their arguments, as that would be akin to my quoting NARTH.

Jerry · Oct 24, 2006

Hatuey said:
I actually wanted to find out if there were any people with the qualities described on the list. If people got offended then I guess you're just insecure about your religious beliefs.

Or tired of the same ole thing being reticulated even though it's been successfully clarified a number of times.

Oh well, I actually enjoy answering those types of questions.

kal-el · Oct 24, 2006

Rhapsody1447 said:
I am sorry, when he said babies I thought he was talking about when Pharoah had every firstborn baby killed. (When Moses' was born) The 10th plague killed all the FIRSTborn in Egypt, it must have been a misprint.

Umm, it was God who killed all the babies, not Pharoah. Anyways, if he is omniscient, he would know ahead of the game that this would happen, if loving, would not want it to happen, being omnipotent, can stop it from happening. But it happened. God is to blame here.

Numbers 33:4

who were burying all their firstborn, whom the LORD had struck down among them; for the LORD had brought judgment on their gods.

Please point out where in the Bible it instructs me to inflict harm on my fellow man.

Exodus 21:15-17 states that you must kill any child who is disobedient. And you'll probably say that was the void Mosaic Law, but elsewhere it says if you don't follow the Mosaic Law, don't even bother praying:

Proverbs 28:9

If anyone turns a deaf ear to the law,
even his prayers are detestable.

What you are saying is that the miracles of Jesus are scientifically impossible. This doesn't disprove Christianity,

Sure it does. Jesus is the figurehead of Christianity. They so desperately need a God as the leader. A normal man will not due. If Jesus' miracles were proven impossible, then Christianity would crumble.

this is apart of the belief system, supernatural intervention occurred in the Bible, and is still occurring today.

I suppose you don't have any peer-reviewed medical journals that document this?

Of course it doesn't pre-suppose that prayers will not be answered, you have to understand that not every whim, and desire someone throws up in a prayer will occur. Prayers that occur with the right state of heart, intention, and amount of faith, as long as they do not contradict God's will (Lord, will you please make Lachean die tonightwill, for obvious reasons will not be answered) will be answered.

You do know that this is all conflicts with what your Messiah said right?

The face of Jacob · Oct 24, 2006

Hatuey said:
but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus"

Pharaoh had astrologers who told him that there going to be born a savior who will take out the Israelis from the slavery in Egypt. They couldn't tell him if it will be Israeli or Egyptian. His astrologers told him that this male born will have problem with water. So he asked them what shall he do? then they answered him to give an order to kill all the male borns in Egypt - Egyptians and Israelis - to throw them into the Nile. At first, Pharaoh gave an order to kill only the Israelis:

Exodus Chapter 1:15-16

And the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah; and he said: 'When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, ye shall look upon the birthstool: if it be a son, then ye shall kill him; but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.'

Later on he gave an order to kill also the Egyptians:

Exodus Chapter 1:22

And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying: 'Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.'

What his astrologers didn't know is that the savior indeed will have a problem with water but not with the water of the Nile but with the water in the desert. When Moses was with the Israelis in the desert he asked from God to give the Israelis water. Then God ordered Moses to talk to a stone for the water to come out of it. Moses hit the stone with his stick instead and God punished him because of that and his punish was that he didn't enter the promise land but died before the children of Israel entered the land of Israel. Another thing that the astrologers missed is that Moses wasn't some kind of divine savior, he was an ordinary human being who just did what God commanded him to do. God chosed him because he showed responsibility to his brothers when he killed an Egyptian policeman who hit an Israeli slave.

The astrologers used the stars in the sky to predict the future but astrology isn't higher than God and astrology shows partial things.

Later on God killed every first male born from the Egyptians but God didn't do it in surprise. He gave warnings to Pharaoh to let the children of Israel to go and if not then he will kill the first male borns. Pharaoh refused to obligate God and this is the reason why he and his nation were punished.

Hatuey said:
and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

Indeed God commanded the children of Israel to eliminate the 7 nations in Canaan because these 7 nations were bad nations who betrayed the commandments of God. These 7 nations were idol worshippers who used to sacrifice their own children to idols they invented for themselves. These 7 nations betrayed the 7 laws of Noach and these 7 nations resist the settle of the Israelis and were enemies of the Israelis. You can find more information regarding it here..

The Israelis didn't destroy these 7 nations completely and the fact is that they didn't destroy most of them. Some ran away and some stayed.

Hatuey said:
You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

When God created the world it took him 6 days to create it. In the sixth day he created the first man and then the woman. But the first 5 days weren't equal to these days. God compressed millions of years into each day. I can tell you that the Jews count the years of the world from the day that the first man was created, so according the Jewish calendar the world is about 5766 years since the man was created (and I think it's similat to the Christian belief regarding the creation of the world). The Jewish new year's eve isn't the day that the world was created but the day that first man was created. So it goes that the world itself isn't 5766 years old but older than that.

An interesting point: The Torah which was given to the children of Israel in mount Horeb is written in Hebrew. It's written in Genesis that God created the heaven. The Hebrew word for heaven is Shamayim. The main word in Shamayim is Sham. Sham in Hebrew is: there. Ayim is a suffix for double objects who have the same size and locate in a constant distance from each other. Another examples for the suffix: Ayim in Hebrew are: Ofanayim which is bicycle in Hebrew. Mishkafayim which is spectacles in Hebrew. So it goes that Shamayim are 2 "there" which located in a constant distance from each other and the explanation is that the heaven surrounds you and you are in the middle of it ---> the world is round!

The face of Jacob · Oct 24, 2006

kal-el said:
Exodus 21:15-17 states that you must kill any child who is disobedient.

I'm sorry dude, this is not true. The commandments in the Torah aren't obligating you. The commandmenrs in the Torah were given to the children of Israel. Are you one of Israel's children? then if so you are obligated to these commandments as the other ones: to circumcise your son in the 8th day, to east kosher, to keep the Sabbath, to celebrate passover etc.

Non children of Israel (non Jews, Jews and children of Israel are the same thing) aren't obligated to the Torah 613 commandments.

And regarding the killing of the child who is disobedient. You didn't mention the reasons why God commanded the children of Israel (and not you) to kill such children. God is saying that if a couple have a child who is living in his parents house and he doesn't listen to them, he eat all the food in the house, he cause terror to his parents and not respect them i.e. destroying their life - then he should be killed by that that his parents will bring him to the old wise judges and will tell them the terror he causes to them.

I can tell you that there was no incident in the 3300 years since that commandment was given to the Israelis, that a child was sentenced to death because he caused terror to his parents. The Judges didn't sentenced him to death such quickly, the Jews are mercifuls sons of mercifuls and if they were such an incidents then they only warned these children.

kal-el · Oct 25, 2006

The face of Jacob said:
I'm sorry dude, this is not true. The commandments in the Torah aren't obligating you. The commandmenrs in the Torah were given to the children of Israel. Are you one of Israel's children? then if so you are obligated to these commandments as the other ones: to circumcise your son in the 8th day, to east kosher, to keep the Sabbath, to celebrate passover etc.

Non children of Israel (non Jews, Jews and children of Israel are the same thing) aren't obligated to the Torah 613 commandments.

Hi face of Jacob.:2wave: Let's move on to your post:

Well if that's the case then, God must be strictly the God of the Jews, so why do you worship the bible God? Your very own Messiah's attitude towards the OT law was that of fullfilment, not nullification. He declares the validity and authority of every single detail of the law until the earth passes. Passing this law off on Jews is boarderline rasicm, not to mention the bible doesn't back up your claim that the law was only meant for Jews. Please come off it already. It seems when laws aren't pleasing to Christians, they claim "those were meant for Jews, not Gentiles".

And regarding the killing of the child who is disobedient. You didn't mention the reasons why God commanded the children of Israel (and not you) to kill such children. God is saying that if a couple have a child who is living in his parents house and he doesn't listen to them, he eat all the food in the house, he cause terror to his parents and not respect them i.e. destroying their life - then he should be killed by that that his parents will bring him to the old wise judges and will tell them the terror he causes to them.

O, that's much better. An omnibenevolent diety setting guidlines for killing children.:lol: Anyway, since you claim it's only for the Jews, that would mean God commands parents kill his disobedient children, since God chose Abraham and his descendents, and many times refers to the entire nation of Isreal as his children.

The face of Jacob · Oct 25, 2006

kal-el said:
Hi face of Jacob.:2wave: Let's move on to your post:

Well if that's the case then, God must be strictly the God of the Jews, so why do you worship the bible God? Your very own Messiah's attitude towards the OT law was that of fullfilment, not nullification. He declares the validity and authority of every single detail of the law until the earth passes. Passing this law off on Jews is boarderline rasicm, not to mention the bible doesn't back up your claim that the law was only meant for Jews. Please come off it already. It seems when laws aren't pleasing to Christians, they claim "those were meant for Jews, not Gentiles".

God is the God of every human on earth, Jews and not Jews. The commandments in the Torah were given only to the Jews. Non Jews got the 7 laws from the covenant between God and Noach and his family after the big flood. Even Jews fulfil the 7 laws + others. Untill the time that God took the children of Israel out of Egypt - they fulfil the 7 laws of Noach, only when God added them more commandments then they were obligated to more.

"not to mention the bible doesn't back up your claim that the law was only meant for Jews"

I don't know what's bible is, I know what's Tanach is. The five books of the Torah are written in Hebrew and God in these books is talking to the nation that he took out from slavery in Egypt. God gave the 613 commandments to the Israeli nation, he didn't talk to all the humans in the universe. He gave the 613 commandments to the children of Israel.

hipsterdufus · Oct 25, 2006

Hatuey said:
I wanted to find out if this was actually in anyway true. If it looks like I'm trying to flame somebody I'm not I'm just trying to figure out how many of the christians here have any of these qualities. Please be honest.

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Brilliant!

Have you read Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins?
You may also want to check out Point Of Inquiry Podcasts.
http://www.pointofinquiry.org/

Jerry · Oct 25, 2006

The face of Jacob said:
God is the God of every human on earth, Jews and not Jews. The commandments in the Torah were given only to the Jews. Non Jews got the 7 laws from the covenant between God and Noach and his family after the big flood. Even Jews fulfil the 7 laws + others. Untill the time that God took the children of Israel out of Egypt - they fulfil the 7 laws of Noach, only when God added them more commandments then they were obligated to more.

I don't know what's bible is, I know what's Tanach is. The five books of the Torah are written in Hebrew and God in these books is talking to the nation that he took out from slavery in Egypt. God gave the 613 commandments to the Israeli nation, he didn't talk to all the humans in the universe. He gave the 613 commandments to the children of Israel.

Sounds pretty solid.....conversion is swimming in my mind...

kal-el · Oct 25, 2006

hipsterdufus said:
Have you read Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins?
You may also want to check out Point Of Inquiry Podcasts.
http://www.pointofinquiry.org/

Yea I just ordered "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. I cannot wait to crack it open and give it a once over. Sam Harris published some great pieces also. I like when he compared religion to slavery, saying a few hundred years ago, intelligent, rational people believed slavery was morally acceptable, the right thing to do, and now, most everybody thinks it is morally detestable. He said the same thing will happen about this "God" belief. A few hundred years from now people will be like, "I can't believe our primitive ancestors believed in a supernatural God."

The face of Jacob · Oct 25, 2006

kal-el said:
Yea I just ordered "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. I cannot wait to crack it open and give it a once over. Sam Harris published some great pieces also. I like when he compared religion to slavery, saying a few hundred years ago, intelligent, rational people believed slavery was morally acceptable, the right thing to do, and now, most everybody thinks it is morally detestable. He said the same thing will happen about this "God" belief. A few hundred years from now people will be like, "I can't believe our primitive ancestors believed in a supernatural God."

Fair enough but you are missing the most important point which is that to believe in God means to do what he tells you to do. Science can improve itself from here to eternity but science won't tell you how to behave in this world. There were couple of very good scientists e.g. Dr. Josef Menagale etc. Who decides what is right or wrong? who gave the laws of living in this world? Only God. Pay attention to the simple fact that science alone doesn't improve the life of humans. As long as humans won't know the difference from good and bad and as long as they will continue to do bad then even the best sciene in the world couldn't help them.

Everything in this world was created. When you see a chair you understand that someone had to built it, it wasn't that he appeared by itself. How would you react if someone will tell you that he was in a dumpster full of scrap-irons and there came a hurricane and mixed all these irons and a Boing 747 was created from all these junks? You would probably say that he is crazy. If you look at the world you will see a mechanism inside of it. You may ask: "then who created God?" but the answer will be that God is not from this world thus you are not in a level to know what's God and he is not under the rules of this world and wasting times understanding who made who will bring you to nothing. Science is a thing that God gave to humans to explore the world, science was invented by God, science isn't higher than God.

And again I will tell that the meaning of believing in God is to do what he tells you to do in the same way that if you believe in the American law it means that you follow the American law, in the same way that when a child believes his mother it means that when she will tell him not to put his hand in boiling water then he wouldn't, if he will put his hand in the boiling water it means that he doesn't believe her and in the same way that believing in your commander in the army means that you will follow his commandments in battle etc.

The problem, and I think that you are aware of it, is that everybody talk about God. The cannibals have their own God which allows them to eat each other. The rapists have their own God which allows them to rape, the pedophiles have their own God which allows them to do their things, the Nazis have their own God which allows them to murder non Nazis and the realists have their prophet who claims that aliens are his own God who allow him to do clonings etc etc etc. This is a real problem in the world today that everybody invent a "personal God" for themselves and they are trying to convince you that they are the only ones who tell the truth.

kal-el · Oct 25, 2006

The face of Jacob said:
Fair enough but you are missing the most important point which is that to believe in God means to do what he tells you to do.

Why should we do what God tells us to do? First of all he must prove he even exists, then he must prove that he isn't evil. If he told you to kill someone you loved very much, would you do it? You wouldn't even question the act first? First we must establish this "God" is who he claims he is, and he is capable of dishing out morally acceptable orders. Just because some, sadly to say, are delusional enough to ask "how high" if some diety says "jump", does not mean the entire population will. He must prove he's not the sadistic despot that the OT sketched him out to be first. If God appeared to me, I would not fall on my knees and worship it first, he better have some answers for me, cause he's in need of a keen apologist. He doesn't get off the hook cause he's God.

Science can improve itself from here to eternity but science won't tell you how to behave in this world.

I'm not questioning that. I'm only saying we don't need some diety who evidently sees no problem stoning to death a guy who picked up a stick, or who dashes little babies to pieces, dictating how we should act. Isn't it a tad bit hypocritical if God tells us to act good, but then turns around and threatens to kill someone because they weren't circumsized?

Who decides what is right or wrong?

Right and wrong are choices of our morality, of ethics. Obviously, it is wrong to hurt someone, as that effects their capacity of living.

who gave the laws of living in this world? Only God.

Which God is the right one? There are over 2,000 Gods that are thought to be in existence? Who's to say Allah isn't the 1 true God? Who's to say the purple snarf widget isn't the 1 true God? Why do some people center their entire lives around something that's about as probable as Spiderman?

Pay attention to the simple fact that science alone doesn't improve the life of humans.

Wow, no offense, but do you think before you type? If it were not for science, you wouldn't even be alive, let alone typing this. Science is responsible for improving the quality of life. Years ago, if someone caught a simple cold, they would end up getting sick a and dying. We've advanced to just being able to take a few pills and the cold's gone. Before they came out with insulin, diabetics would starve themselves and die at a young age. Now there's insulin pumps, geez a diabetic needs only change an infusion site every 3 or 4 days! Every year keeps getting better and better.

As long as humans won't know the difference from good and bad and as long as they will continue to do bad then even the best sciene in the world couldn't help them.

What? Who said we don't know the difference between good and bad? Give us some credit man. Science and technology are excellent, they can only be misused by people with bad intentions.

Everything in this world was created.

Hint.. Just because the bible says so doesn't mean it's true. Who created God then?

When you see a chair you understand that someone had to built it, it wasn't that he appeared by itself. How would you react if someone will tell you that he was in a dumpster full of scrap-irons and there came a hurricane and mixed all these irons and a Boing 747 was created from all these junks? You would probably say that he is crazy. If you look at the world you will see a mechanism inside of it. You may ask: "then who created God?" but the answer will be that God is not from this world thus you are not in a level to know what's God and he is not under the rules of this world and wasting times understanding who made who will bring you to nothing. Science is a thing that God gave to humans to explore the world, science was invented by God, science isn't higher than God.

Wow, if I didn't know any better I would think you are one of his road-dogs or something, because you do an awful lot of speaking for this God of yours. What does a cat got his tongue?

And again I will tell that the meaning of believing in God is to do what he tells you to do in the same way that if you believe in the American law it means that you follow the American law, in the same way that when a child believes his mother it means that when she will tell him not to put his hand in boiling water then he wouldn't, if he will put his hand in the boiling water it means that he doesn't believe her and in the same way that believing in your commander in the army means that you will follow his commandments in battle etc.

The problem, and I think that you are aware of it, is that everybody talk about God. The cannibals have their own God which allows them to eat each other. The rapists have their own God which allows them to rape, the pedophiles have their own God which allows them to do their things, the Nazis have their own God which allows them to murder non Nazis and the realists have their prophet who claims that aliens are his own God who allow him to do clonings etc etc etc. This is a real problem in the world today that everybody invent a "personal God" for themselves and they are trying to convince you that they are the only ones who tell the truth.

Are you familair with the Raelian religion? Their leader, Real, claims he was abducted by aliens, the Elohim, whom ancient man wrongly called, "God". He claims each prophet is a representative under the Elohim. You want the kicker, this guy claims he is Jesus' brother. Now, what makes your brand of superstition any more plausible than the Raelians?

Top Ten Signs You Are A Fundamental Christian.

Hatuey

Rule of Two

tecoyah

Illusionary

Rhapsody1447

Skeptical Optimist

jfuh

Mach

Spartacus FPV

Better You = Better World

ngdawg

conliberaservatarianist

Jerry

Morrow

Active member

Rhapsody1447

Skeptical Optimist

Jerry

Hatuey

Rule of Two

kal-el

Jerry

Jerry

kal-el

The face of Jacob

"You Don't Suck" award

The face of Jacob

"You Don't Suck" award

kal-el

The face of Jacob

"You Don't Suck" award

hipsterdufus

Jerry

kal-el

The face of Jacob

"You Don't Suck" award

kal-el