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Priest Abuse Victim Is Suspended From Vatican Panel

JANFU

JANFU

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/w...latest&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront

But the suspended member, Peter Saunders, said at a news conference in Rome on Saturday that he would stand his ground. “I have not left, and am not leaving my position on the commission,” Mr. Saunders said. “I was appointed by His Holiness Pope Francis, and I will talk only with him about my position.”

The public blowup could undermine confidence in the pope’s efforts to rebuild the Roman Catholic Church’s credibility on the child abuse issue. When the 17-member commission was created by Francis in his first year as pope, many victims and their advocates hoped that the presence on the panel of Mr. Saunders and another victim would spur the commission to act forcefully. But Mr. Saunders, who founded the National Association for People Abused in Childhood, in England, has complained that the commission has failed to produce tangible results.
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The Pope has indeed run into prepared roadblocks & scandals.
Your thoughts on this and the Pope and his direction on various matters?
 
They don't want to solve the problem, they don't want to even admit there is a problem, all of these commissions and groups are only there to make a public showing, they all know that the only way to solve the problem is to fundamentally change the way the church operates and they're not willing to do that.
 
From CBS News:

Pope Francis' sex abuse advisory committee voted Saturday to sideline one of its members, a high-profile abuse survivor who had clashed with the commission over its mission.

Peter Saunders, a British advocate for victims, had been highly critical of the Vatican's slow pace of progress in taking measures to protect children and punish bishops who covered up for pedophile priests. He had also wanted the commission to intervene immediately in individual cases, rather than just craft long-term policies to fight abuse. Pope Francis' sex abuse panel tells U.K. survivor Peter Saunders to take leave of absence - CBS News

From Reuters:

A prominent and outspoken British member of a papal advisory commission on sexual abuse by the clergy on Saturday refused to step down despite a no-confidence vote, and said only Pope Francis could dismiss him.

...Saunders had been publicly critical of the commission, which was set up in 2014. Made up of clerics and lay people from around the world, its task is to help Pope Francis establish "best practices" in dioceses around the world to root out sex abuse in the Church. Eight of its 17 members are women and two are themselves victims of abuse by clerics.

Saunders said that on Saturday morning the commission had taken a near-unanimous vote of no-confidence against him, accusing him of being hard to work with and a "campaigner", and of talking too much to the media.

Critic of Vatican refuses to step down from sex abuse commission | Reuters
 
The ultimate reason for the priestly pedophile scandal is the insistence on clerical celibacy. This results in a shortage of priests. This in turn means that clerical authorities have an incentive to keep priests they have problems with, and to keep giving them more chances to stop abusing minors.

Matthew 8:14 Now when Jesus had come into Peter’s house, He saw his wife’s mother lying sick with a fever. 15 So He touched her hand, and the fever left her. And she arose and served them

The insistence on priestly celibacy cannot be found in the Bible.
 
JANFU said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/w...latest&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront


The Pope has indeed run into prepared roadblocks & scandals.
Your thoughts on this and the Pope and his direction on various matters?
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Members of organizations who lambast their organization to other, hostile, organizations (the media in this case), tend not to do well.

SmartCat said:
The ultimate reason for the priestly pedophile scandal is the insistence on clerical celibacy.
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Sexually active men are more likely to commit pedophilia than celibates.
 
Paleocon said:
Members of organizations who lambast their organization to other, hostile, organizations (the media in this case), tend not to do well. ...
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This is the explanation. The guy was a able to work as a team member.
 
Was or wasn't? This isn't clear.
 
Paleocon said:
Sexually active men are more likely to commit pedophilia than celibates.
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You missed my entire argument. Celibacy alone does not incline men to child abuse. However, the insistence on priestly celibacy reduces the number of men who are willing to become Roman Catholic priests. This in turn makes clerical authorities reluctant to defrock pedophile priests, because they will have a difficult time replacing them.

I am an Episcopalian. The number of men who graduate from Episcopal seminaries is larger than the number of clerical positions. Episcopal priests who abuse minors are easy to replace. They are quickly defrocked and reported to the police.
 
Paleocon said:
Sexually active men are more likely to commit pedophilia than celibates.
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Uh, these are sexually active men, problem is, they are sexually active with little boys.
 
SmartCat said:
You missed my entire argument. Celibacy alone does not incline men to child abuse. However, the insistence on priestly celibacy reduces the number of men who are willing to become Roman Catholic priests. This in turn makes clerical authorities reluctant to defrock pedophile priests, because they will have a difficult time replacing them.

I am an Episcopalian. The number of men who graduate from Episcopal seminaries is larger than the number of clerical positions. Episcopal priests who abuse minors are easy to replace. They are quickly defrocked and reported to the police.
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An which has higher rates of clerical abuse?
 
Paleocon said:
An which has higher rates of clerical abuse?
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Is that a serious question? I have never read of an Episcopal priest who sexually abuse minors. I suppose there have been a few, but a far smaller percentage.
 
SmartCat said:
Is that a serious question? I have never read of an Episcopal priest who sexually abuse minors. I suppose there have been a few, but a far smaller percentage.
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You just told me that episcopal priests who do abuse minors get defrocked and turned in to the police. Now you're saying you've never heard of such a case. So which is it, are you lying now, or were you pulling that out of thin air a few minutes ago?
 
SmartCat said:
Is that a serious question? I have never read of an Episcopal priest who sexually abuse minors. I suppose there have been a few, but a far smaller percentage.
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From what I have read, it's about the same percentage. The insurance companies that have to pay off the payments have the same rate of claims for Catholic clergy and other denominations. Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Now, at one time I read that in Australia, one of the 'profiles' factors for pedophile was being a minister or priest. I tried looking it up a couple of years after I read that, and never could find that information again. .... so I don't know if my original source was being snarky. There were enough cases coming to light all at the same time for various denominations that someone coined up the acronym 'PRIEST' for being 'pedophile residing in every small town'.

Similar things happened with the boy scouts and girl scouts, enough so that they started having the policy that any event had to be hosted by two non-related adults. The boy scouts had the scandal where they swept accusations of abuse under the rug for a while too. That seems to happen when people are more afraid of scandal than they care about the well being of the victims. It happened before, it will happen again, and not just religious organizations. It's a risk anytime you have groups of children being managed by adults.... unfortunately.
 
SmartCat said:
The ultimate reason for the priestly pedophile scandal is the insistence on clerical celibacy. This results in a shortage of priests. This in turn means that clerical authorities have an incentive to keep priests they have problems with, and to keep giving them more chances to stop abusing minors.

Matthew 8:14 Now when Jesus had come into Peter’s house, He saw his wife’s mother lying sick with a fever. 15 So He touched her hand, and the fever left her. And she arose and served them

The insistence on priestly celibacy cannot be found in the Bible.
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no that is wrong

pedophilia is an attraction to children...period

it has nothing to do with celibacy
 
SmartCat said:
You missed my entire argument. Celibacy alone does not incline men to child abuse. However, the insistence on priestly celibacy reduces the number of men who are willing to become Roman Catholic priests. This in turn makes clerical authorities reluctant to defrock pedophile priests, because they will have a difficult time replacing them.

I am an Episcopalian. The number of men who graduate from Episcopal seminaries is larger than the number of clerical positions. Episcopal priests who abuse minors are easy to replace. They are quickly defrocked and reported to the police.
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this post I would agree with

and that asking men to be celibate in order to minister to a congregation is ridiculous
 
RAMOSS said:
From what I have read, it's about the same percentage. The insurance companies that have to pay off the payments have the same rate of claims for Catholic clergy and other denominations. Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Now, at one time I read that in Australia, one of the 'profiles' factors for pedophile was being a minister or priest. I tried looking it up a couple of years after I read that, and never could find that information again. .... so I don't know if my original source was being snarky. There were enough cases coming to light all at the same time for various denominations that someone coined up the acronym 'PRIEST' for being 'pedophile residing in every small town'.

Similar things happened with the boy scouts and girl scouts, enough so that they started having the policy that any event had to be hosted by two non-related adults. The boy scouts had the scandal where they swept accusations of abuse under the rug for a while too. That seems to happen when people are more afraid of scandal than they care about the well being of the victims. It happened before, it will happen again, and not just religious organizations. It's a risk anytime you have groups of children being managed by adults.... unfortunately.
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bingo...this is correct
 
_Sal said:
rates of abuse are the same across the board, and also the same as society in general
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If you care to leave that fantasy (the one where Catholic priests offend at the same rate as everyone else, they don't, they offend less), you are free to Google. But as they say, you can lead a liberal to water, but you can't make him/her face facts.
 
Paleocon said:
If you care to leave that fantasy (the one where Catholic priests offend at the same rate as everyone else, they don't, they offend less), you are free to Google. But as they say, you can lead a liberal to water, but you can't make him/her face facts.
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my point was that priests are not more disposed to pedophilia than any other religion or any more so than the general public

but if you need to belittle my left leaning due to your inability to comprehend I don't have a problem with that... you sure aren't much of a Catholic, maybe a bit of the old examination of conscience and confession is in order for you

thanks for the ammo though...I'll be watching your behaviour closely to see if you are all mouth or an example of what you like to preach
 
_Sal said:
no that is wrong

pedophilia is an attraction to children...period

it has nothing to do with celibacy
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You still do not understand my argument. I do not think I can simplify it any more.
 
_Sal said:
rates of abuse are the same across the board, and also the same as society in general
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That is simply not true at all. The reason the press is not reporting a Protestant minister pedophile scandal is because it does not exist.
 
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