How can the right even suggest that they are Christian[W:487]

clownboy · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
I am coming a hell of a lot closer to correctly describing American conservative motivation than you, cp.

It does boil down to "hooray for me, screw you."

And IN MY OPINION, any person professing to be a Christian who also claims to be an American conservative...is a hypocrite of the FIRST CLASS.

Yes, I am biased. I think we all are. Live with it.

That's nice. You made your conclusion and worked backward from there until you found your "proof". Fine. You've cooked up a nasty little slogan and nailed it on a large group of people you disagree with politically. Good on you.

We know how you feel about conservatives and people who disagree with you or call you on your silly opinions. And it's YOU who has to live with that.

Frank Apisa · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
That chant is about as credible as Obama's '65 nation' anti-ISIS coalition. You can keep repeating it but it's not working for you. And it's certainly not a Christian conservative value, unless you can show it to me in the Bible.

Oh, it is working. Obviously it is not working for you...but then again, willfully blind people just cannot see.

If you think the value "hooray for me, screw you" is not an American conservative value...you are kidding yourself. And if a professed Christian subscribes to the general American conservative value system...IT IS a Christian conservative value.

I love the fact that you consider it an insult, though. Because any Christian agreeing with American conservatism...is insulting Christianity.

Frank Apisa · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

clownboy said:
That's nice. You made your conclusion and worked backward from there until you found your "proof". Fine. You've cooked up a nasty little slogan and nailed it on a large group of people you disagree with politically. Good on you.

We know how you feel about conservatives and people who disagree with you or call you on your silly opinions. And it's YOU who has to live with that.

Oh, Clownboy...ya gotta do better than that.

Proof???

I'm not trying to prove that American conservatives have "hooray for me, screw you" as motivation. THEY prove it regularly.

I'm glad the idea bothers you though. But instead of trying to pretend it does not permeate American conservatism to its core, perhaps you ought to be considering why you seem to tolerate it as part of your personal motivation.

jbander · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
That chant is about as credible as Obama's '65 nation' anti-ISIS coalition. You can keep repeating it but it's not working for you. And it's certainly not a Christian conservative value, unless you can show it to me in the Bible.

Christian conservative value is a oxymoron. it wasn't always but it dam sure is now. I do think the chant your talking about is from in Atlas Shrugged , I've heard from good sources that is the new Bible of the right and Ayn Rand is their new God. Anyone else hear this.

clownboy · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
Oh, Clownboy...ya gotta do better than that.

Proof???

I'm not trying to prove that American conservatives have "hooray for me, screw you" as motivation. THEY prove it regularly.

I'm glad the idea bothers you though. But instead of trying to pretend it does not permeate American conservatism to its core, perhaps you ought to be considering why you seem to tolerate it as part of your personal motivation.

Bother me? :lamo

No, your self-reinforced opinions don't bother me. You are welcome to believe whatever drak gets you through the day. But when you lay them out here as having any sort of accuracy outside whatever mental universe you've conjured, folks aren't necessarily going to hop aboard your fantasy train.

RAMOSS · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

This whole 'conservatives are more charitable' argument reminds me of the quote of the Brazilian Archbishop Helder Camara.

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist."

Frank Apisa · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

clownboy said:
Bother me? :lamo

No, your self-reinforced opinions don't bother me.

I said nothing about my opinions bothering you. But that straw man helps put the rest of your remarks into context.

You are welcome to believe whatever drak gets you through the day.

I don't do "believing."

But when you lay them out here as having any sort of accuracy outside whatever mental universe you've conjured, folks aren't necessarily going to hop aboard your fantasy train.

I think you would be surprised at how many people think a huge part of the American conservative "motivation" IS: Hooray for me, screw you.

cpwill · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
I am coming a hell of a lot closer to correctly describing American conservative motivation than you, cp.

It does boil down to "hooray for me, screw you."

:shrug: Considering your murderous hatred of poor people, it is far more likely that you simply oppose those who have policy proposals that would actually help people escape poverty.

Curious though: did I have a I Got Mine attitude back when I qualified for food stamps, wic, etc? What, exactly, was it that I Got?

And IN MY OPINION, any person professing to be a Christian who also claims to be an American conservative...is a hypocrite of the FIRST CLASS.

Yes. And that opinion is built on ignorance of both Christianity and Conservatism.

nota bene · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
Oh, it is working. Obviously it is not working for you...but then again, willfully blind people just cannot see.

If you think the value "hooray for me, screw you" is not an American conservative value...you are kidding yourself. And if a professed Christian subscribes to the general American conservative value system...IT IS a Christian conservative value.

I love the fact that you consider it an insult, though. Because any Christian agreeing with American conservatism...is insulting Christianity.

I am a professed Christian, and I do lean conservative. With the exception of being a carnivore when the fact is that if I had to kill what I eat, I'd starve, I'm no hypocrite. You're condemning, what, about half of this country's population?

Logicman · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
Oh, it is working. Obviously it is not working for you...but then again, willfully blind people just cannot see.

If you think the value "hooray for me, screw you" is not an American conservative value...you are kidding yourself. And if a professed Christian subscribes to the general American conservative value system...IT IS a Christian conservative value.

I love the fact that you consider it an insult, though. Because any Christian agreeing with American conservatism...is insulting Christianity.

Why don't you back up your claim and show me where Jesus gave out that "hooray for me, screw you" teaching?

<crickets>

Logicman · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

jbander said:
Christian conservative value is a oxymoron.

What would you know about it? You've been supporting deficit spending, racking up debt, going on money hunts for other people's money, etc. Not a good resume.

And you never answered the question: What would you people do if you couldn't get money from other people or the government? You'd be out of business.

jbander · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
What would you know about it? You've been supporting deficit spending, racking up debt, going on money hunts for other people's money, etc. Not a good resume.

And you never answered the question: What would you people do if you couldn't get money from other people or the government? You'd be out of business.

First you answer my question, when you die and you see Abraham and see Lazarus standing standing next to him , why do you think he will be pointing at you, a little tip , He's done it before for the Exact same issues

Logicman · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

jbander said:
First you answer my question, when you die and you see Abraham and see Lazarus standing standing next to him , why do you think he will be pointing at you, a little tip , He's done it before for the Exact same issues

I'm already saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). As for Abraham, he saw Jesus' day and was glad.

Now answer my question: What would you people do if you couldn't get money from other people or the government?

nota bene · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

jbander said:
First you answer my question, when you die and you see Abraham and see Lazarus standing standing next to him , why do you think he will be pointing at you, a little tip , He's done it before for the Exact same issues

Don't you feel a bit uncomfortable speculating about what is entirely beyond your ken to judge?

jbander · Nov 25, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
I'm already saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). As for Abraham, he saw Jesus' day and was glad.

Now answer my question: What would you people do if you couldn't get money from other people or the government?

Your question is unanswerable because it is fantasy in the sick uni-mind of the regressives. Only a simple minded person would ask a question with no Idea in the first place if I do or don't take money from the government but I will relay a truth to you so you can come away with something. There is minimally twice the money paid for corporate welfare then there is for the needy, so what kind of hate does it take to go after the poor when the real money is with many of your fat old white men of your own party.

jbander · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

nota bene said:
Don't you feel a bit uncomfortable speculating about what is entirely beyond your ken to judge?

The hate of the Nazi's allows me to know where they will go, I'll tell you a little story, in the early 30's when Germany was in a massive Depression, the people were beyond hopeless, at that point, people have a tendency to question themselves and they see them self failing in many ways. It is just natural. Hitler knew about this and to increase his hate support, he gave the Germans something to blame to address the Germans feelings of failure. He Gave them the unions, Gypsy’s and Jews for the cause of the depression. It is only natural for people to grab at anything to shift blame away from themselves. So in the U.S. we have the Bush/regressives recession almost equal to the worst economic Disaster of all times in this country. So the people of this country were beyond hopeless , at that point people have a tendency to question themselves and they see them self failing in many ways. It is just natural. So the Nazi's, I mean the regressives knew about this and they gave the Americans something to blame to address the Americans feelings of failure. They Gave them the unions, Muslims and Mexicans for the cause of the depression. It is only natural for people to grab at anything to shift blame away from themselves.

Frank Apisa · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

cpwill said:
:shrug: Considering your murderous hatred of poor people, it is far more likely that you simply oppose those who have policy proposals that would actually help people escape poverty.

Not even a nice try, cp. You are firing blanks.

The conservative "policy proposals" are mostly variations on "Kick 'em hard enough and they will stop being poor."

Curious though: did I have a I Got Mine attitude back when I qualified for food stamps, wic, etc? What, exactly, was it that I Got?

I don't know. Why not tell us?

Yes. And that opinion is built on ignorance of both Christianity and Conservatism.

No. It is built upon being willing to open my mind rather than keeping it tightly shut as you apparently have yours.

Frank Apisa · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

nota bene said:
I am a professed Christian, and I do lean conservative. With the exception of being a carnivore when the fact is that if I had to kill what I eat, I'd starve, I'm no hypocrite. You're condemning, what, about half of this country's population?

I do not have the exact number...and I am not "condemning" them...I am merely pointing out that the people who identify themselves as Christians who also identify themselves as American conservatives...

...are, in my opinion, hypocrites of the first degree.

Frank Apisa · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
Why don't you back up your claim and show me where Jesus gave out that "hooray for me, screw you" teaching?

<crickets>

Jesus didn't...and I never said Jesus did. When are you going to finally get that?

Frank Apisa · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
I'm already saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). As for Abraham, he saw Jesus' day and was glad.

Now answer my question: What would you people do if you couldn't get money from other people or the government?

"Saved?"

From what? The wrath of your god?

cpwill · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
Not even a nice try, cp. You are firing blanks.

:doh. That's the point, Frank. Your claims about the motives of people whom you don't know are as baseless as they are rude. They are about as effective as claims that liberals hate the poor due to their opposition to policies that would actually help the poor. Both confuse opposition to one's policies with opposition to one's motivations.

The conservative "policy proposals" are mostly variations on "Kick 'em hard enough and they will stop being poor."

Aw.

. Did a millionaire anchor on MSNBC tell you that?

No. Current policy harms the poor. It punishes them when they try to make wise decisions, and when they try to improve themselves. It rewards self destructive behavior. That is what conservatives are trying to fix.

No. It is built upon being willing to open my mind rather than keeping it tightly shut as you apparently have yours.

:lamo: here's a hint, Frank : open minded people don't assume that people who come to differing conclusions than they do so from I'll -intent.

You're being as close minded as they come, Frank

.

Open Minded doesn't mean believing your own beliefs and denigrating others.. It means being open to others beliefs.. You aren't open to honestly hearing what others think; instead you try to shut off the discussion by declaring that they must be evil for thinking differently than you.

tosca1 · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

jbander said:
If you want to know exactly what the right wants for this country, it is spelled out completely in Paul Ryans Budgets signed on , I may add, by 100% of the rights congressmen in his original budget. He wants to pull 5 trillion out of the system 2/3 from the old, sick and needy for the noble sake of the deficit but then turns around and puts in massive tax cuts and handouts to big business and the wealthy, then adds massively to the military budget, gee what about the deficit Ryan. 24 states conservative Governors have excluded Syrians refuges from coming to their state . Conservitives are so far from being Christian with their emphases on attacking gays and not a word about support for the poor , in fact they want to take massively from the poor. 5-6 remarks in the bible about gays and taking care of the poor has the largest verbiage in the bible at 300 times. Conservative Christians will be standing at the gates of heaven and Lazarus will be there and he won't let them in.

Being held accountable when we all face God, that'll be our own individual problem, isn't it?
Just like me, you got your own to worry about.......no sense pointing a judgemental finger in anyone's direction.

cpwill · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
I don't know.

Clearly.

Why not tell us?

No - you are the one demanding that, as a conservative, my opinion was I Got Mine, Screw You. When I rated food stamps, WIC, and whatnot, what exactly had I Got, and why exactly was I saying Screw You to half my family who is was/is in the same boat?

cpwill · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
"Saved?"

From what? The wrath of your god?

...and you claim to speak for Christianity.

Frank Apisa · Nov 26, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

cpwill said:
:doh. That's the point, Frank. Your claims about the motives of people whom you don't know are as baseless as they are rude. They are about as effective as claims that liberals hate the poor due to their opposition to policies that would actually help the poor. Both confuse opposition to one's policies with opposition to one's motivations.

What I wrote was: I am coming a hell of a lot closer to correctly describing American conservative motivation than you, cp.

Your response began: Considering your murderous hatred of poor people...

I am not about to take lessons from you about rudeness, cp. In fact, it is laughable for you to suggest you are capable of giving that lesson.,

Aw. . Did a millionaire anchor on MSNBC tell you that?

No. Current policy harms the poor. It punishes them when they try to make wise decisions, and when they try to improve themselves. It rewards self destructive behavior. That is what conservatives are trying to fix.

I don't listen to MSNBC. But I do listen to American conservatives...and it seems to me that most of what they say blames the poor for being poor...and suggest that the best remedy is to kick them in the ass as hard as possible so that they will stop being poor.

You guys haven't done a thing for the poor except to blame them for their poverty...and to aid the 1% in getting richer while adding the people forced out of the middle class into the ranks of the poor.

:lamo: here's a hint, Frank : open minded people don't assume that people who come to differing conclusions than they do so from I'll -intent. You're being as close minded as they come, Frank .

Open Minded doesn't mean believing your own beliefs and denigrating others.. It means being open to others beliefs.. You aren't open to honestly hearing what others think; instead you try to shut off the discussion by declaring that they must be evil for thinking differently than you.

There are times where I am close minded. I acknowledge that. But not nearly as much as you are showing here.

American conservatism, in my opinion, is one of the most disgusting blights any country has ever had to endure. Why any person identifying as a Christian would want to be part of it is beyond me.