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Thread: Islam Q&A & Discussion

  1. #141
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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Musa View Post
    ^I don't even get your 12:49 post. What are you getting at? You just listed a bunch of random names really... some of whom are actually personal friends and teachers of mine.
    I'm not "getting at" anything. I said my piece in that post, and I've already gotten at what i meant to say. My point was, and is, generally, Islamapologists listen obly to other Islamapologists, rarely have contact with protectionists like Steve Emerson, Stephen Coughlin, Brigitte Gabriel, Robert Spencer, P. David Gaubatz, Paul Sperry, Frank Gaffney - or read their books and writings.

    Consequently, they are most often oblivious to the hundreds of examples of Stealth Jihad that are slowly subverting Europe, Canada, and the United States into Islamic states. In another forum, I listed these names and challenged Islamapologists who had been blabbing till the cows come home about how great Islam is and how all these subversions ought to be acceptable.

    The highest grade any of them came up with was 5%, and that was probably looking it up on the internet. In a couple of cases, they knew about the person or thing listed, but didn't know the things I knew about them. I'm a little curious though about who, on my list, are friends of yours or former teachers. Care to divulge that ?

    PS - the names I listed are not "random". They are all connected to Islamization. Do you know how ?
    Last edited by Protectionist; 12-07-10 at 07:01 PM. Reason: added a post script

  2. #142
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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    “The masses of us already know it, and those who do not, will probably not change. It's honestly a stumbling block to my real Islamic education. And 10 years of it - and you, as is the case for most, have not even heard our voices.” - Musa

    The problem is not that were deaf. The problem is that there continues to be attempts at terror (the shoe-bomber, the panty-bomber, the attempt on the Brooklyn Bridge) which are sometimes successful (The Ft. Hood terrorist).

    In other words, the problem is not that we’re not paying attention…the problem is that we are.

    “I would highly suggest you watch the documentary, "To Die In Jerusalem," about an Israel mother who wants to meet the mother of her daughter's female killer.” - Musa

    Actually, I believe I already have…about two years ago.

    “I think some sects of Christianity require that one goes to school before opening a church, no?” - Musa

    I can’t speak for every Christian sect, but no. Churches require that you be ordained but any church may ordain you and there is variation from church to church on what is required to be ordained--even within the same denomination.

    Jimmy Swaggart was ordained by the Assembly of God Church. When it became known that he was getting it on with prostitutes he was de-frocked. So he started his own church and ordained himself. And being ordained allows you to do certain things under the law (like legally marry people).

    “Is there anything like it in Christianity?” - Musa

    Yes, we call it Christian Apologetics (and call what you are talking about Islamic Apologetics).

    The word comes from the Greek apologia and means “to present a defense for” and utilizes the various sciences to do so.

    “I am enjoying how this is dialogue format, as opposed to a debate. Thank you, for helping to maintain that.” - Musa

    Being polite to those who are polite to you really takes no effort. But, yes, I am enjoying this, as well.

    “Will do. I know I keep saying it, but I only just began freaking out about finals…” - Musa

    I’ve been here for years. Study first.

    “Since Allah's attributes are unique, it is not possible for mankind to understand the exact nature of Allah's Names and Attributes, even though it is possible to understand the concept that any Name or Attribute refer to... so man has the characteristic of life, and Allah describes himself as having the characteristic of Life, but... they differ as much as man differs from the creator.” - Yasir Qadhi.

    “…you are My friends…” - Jesus

    “Perhaps I wrote this unclear. First of all, Pakistanis, Moroccans, etc. are definitely not used to the same sort of free speech that is acceptable in European society.” - Musa

    So this is more cultural than religious?

    “No one would criticize Muhammad (pbuh) with such crude remarks, as is the case in Western society.” - Musa

    Yea! ‘Cause they’ll cut your freakin’ head-off! But I’m not aware of anything in the Koran that requires you to kill someone if they “criticize Muhammad with crude remarks”? Is there anything in the Koran that requires such a punishment? And if it’s not in the Koran, why does this response (killing people that criticize Muhammad) so universal.

    “I'm going to have to stop here and call it a night! Consider it one of those commercials that cuts in right at the climax...” - Musa

    Aw, man!
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  3. #143
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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Without looking at your link (because I don't have time right now), I think Jews are still targets of "hate" crimes more than any other group.
    I would disagree, but I don't have any statistics either way.

    The link leads to a study indicating that ATHEISTS are the most hated minority. Though there are still some nutcases trying to do harm to Jews, the vast majority of Americans are incredibly curious and supportive of the Jewish religion (I'm a Jew by birth who is frankly sick and tired of all the attention I get).

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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    First of all, discrimination/hate crime statistics are not very reliable - ESPECIALLY when talking about Muslims. The most discriminated group of Muslims are those whom appear, "fresh off the boat," and often are. They don't know how to use the system, and therefore, a lot of crimes against them go unreported. I personally have had my cars tires slashed and mirrors broken, though I cannot confirm it was a hate crime (but I was parked at the Mosque, and the same happened to several others). Here is a relevant article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/24/bu.../24muslim.html

    And though I am swamped in work, and cannot write a decent post now, I figured this could offer some room for thought: Muslim Scholars—West’s Natural Allies in Fighting Scourge of Terrorism Muslim Scholars

  5. #145
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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    I'm curious, Musa. What position of yours is advanced by denying that Jews are targeted for hate crimes more than other groups?

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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    When did I say or imply that?

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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    my experience is pretty much the same. most people I have had a chance to get to know are good people, regardless of religion. some are not, but this doesn't seem to be based on religion in any way.

    I find often that people who come from more traditional societies - and therefore in my experience especially Muslims - are super hospitable and friendly - but its not a religious thing - you get the same among other more traditional people as well.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    I do not like Khalid Yasin. I went to an event where he was speaking years ago, and I was shocked by what he said.

    He was addressing women, and some of the comments he made were way out.

    He was discouraging immigrant Muslim women from mixing with non Muslims ... apparently 25% of western women are lesbians and can't be trusted, therefore muslim women should never come to our houses. He also suggested that Muslim women should not get jobs with westerners, and if they did, they should shun social gatherings with colleagues.

    many of the Muslim women present were embarrassed by this man, and said that he does not represent Islam.

    I already knew he didn't. I have had plenty to do with Muslims - and while yes, there are some who might be termed "fundamentalist" (which is not the same thing as being a terrorist), most are not. I know Muslims who wear hijab during ramadan only, who don't wear it at all, who eat ham and bacon, who never pray (or maybe do at Ramadan), who don't fast, who wear skimpy clothes, who go clubbing and get drunk with their friends, who live with their (non Muslim) boyfriends, and parents who are more tolerant of this state of affairs than my mothers generation were in the 70's, even one or two gay Muslims .... and some who question whether there really is a God or not ...... I also know Muslims who are very devout, some for whom their identity as a Muslim is more important to them than anything else, some who proselytize at every opportunity, some who try to control their children (in the same way that the children of southern european families used to be controlled by family members back in the seventies) and so on.

    in muslim countries especially I have met people who can't understand that I am an atheist, and their concern for me is quite touching. It seems far more from the heart than either Muslim or christian proselytizers here.

    I don't think Yasin is a good example of a Muslim. he is a control freak.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    No, what I'll do is renounce those idiots. See, that's the difference, I have no problem saying flat out that those people just suck. I won't sit here and try to justify them and say we need to understand their valid grievances. Also, as offensive and hateful as those folks are, as far as I know, they haven't killed anyone or cut off anyone's hands or heads.
    so I don't get your point. The majority of Muslims have always distanced themselves from terrorists.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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    Re: Islam Q&A & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Without looking at your link (because I don't have time right now), I think Jews are still targets of "hate" crimes more than any other group.
    really?

    I would like to see some stats to back that up.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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