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Thread: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

  1. #671
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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think homosexuality, fornication, and even lust is wrong.
    What about homosexuality makes it wrong? Is it just wrong arbitrarily for the same reason that it is wrong to wear wool with linen? Or plaid with stripes? Or to wear white after Labor Day?

    According the Bible, sin is not arbitrary. All law is based on the following formula:

    "So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." -Matt 7:12

    You can apply this rule to anything and immediately determine whether it is a sin or not.

    "Do I want that person to steal from me? No I don't. Therefore it is a sin for me to steal from them."

    "Do I want that person to murder me? No I don't. Therefore it is a sin for me to murder them."

    "Do I want that person to bear false witness against me? No I don't. Therefore it is a sin for me to bear false witness against them."

    "Do I want my mother and father to honor me? Yes I do. Therefore it is a sin for me not to honor them."

    "Do I want my wife to commit adultery against me? No I don't. Therefore it is a sin for me to commit adultery against her."

    "Do I want my neighbor to covet my wife? No I don't. Therefore it is a sin for me to covet his wife."


    According to Jesus this formula is prescriptive in nature, and can be applied to every imaginable circumstance. "So in EVERYTHING" He said.

    Accordingly, those who think that homosexuality is a sin, must demonstrate why, given this formula. To say "homosexuality is a sin because my hermeneutic of the Bible says so" denies the reasoned nature of sin in favour of a arbitrary set of rules. Jesus clearly denies that sin is arbitrary.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    God transcends your worldly formula. Your formula that excludes homosexuality also excludes incest and bestiality. To differ on that point reveals your true bias and contempt.

    There are multple scriptures against homosexuality. Either you follow them or you don't.
    Last edited by Wake; 11-22-10 at 02:08 PM. Reason: I meant "worldly."

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Why exactly do those of us who don't see human beings as inherently "sinful" need to approach our lives the way you do? I don't look around me and see "sinners". I see people who are generally good, and try to even help others even at their own expense sometimes. I see people trying really hard to accomplish tasks, and who know the value of their hard work to society. I see people who want love, satisfaction, and happiness, and who understand that sometimes a little bit of selfishness is needed. I don't see people who are doomed to be imperfect. There is no perfect, there's just people doing a pretty good job. Not to say we couldn't do better, but we're not bad by default. We're merely okay. And we actually care about doing better.

    I also can't imagine any kind of harm coming from two people honestly enjoying one another, for any reason.
    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Wow, really? Given time and the collection of like minds, nothing is impossible.
    And do you have any Biblical evidence that incest is immoral for Christians under the New Covenant? The only people for whom the Bible claims incest was not permitted were the tribes of Israel under the Old Covenant. The same people for whom eating shrimp or bacon and wearing mixed fabrics was a sin.

    If incest is immoral, then why did God create only two human beings and then tell them to be fruitful and multiply? Incest was obviously part of the original design for humanity, since Adam and Eve's kids didn't have anyone to marry but each other.

    Similarly, incest was required to some extent after the flood, since only Noah and his family was saved. His grandchildren had to marry their first cousins at the very least. All the animals on the planet had to mate with their brothers and sisters.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    To take a devil's advocate position for a moment, unless you're worried about mutant children, what is actually ethically wrong with incest? I mean, if two siblings are separated at birth, never know they're related, meet as adults and have sex, and never have children, how is that morally wrong? I can understand discouraging inbreeding from a genetic standpoint, but how is the actual act of sex immoral?
    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    God transcends your wordly formula. Your formula that excludes homosexuality also excludes incest and bestiality. To differ on that point reveals your true bias and contempt.

    There are multple scriptures against homosexuality. Either you follow them or you don't.
    Ironically appropriate that you should call this formula wordly, since it did in fact come from the Word.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." -John 1:1

    I assume you meant "worldly" though, which is blasphemous, since you are calling worldly that which came from the lips of God Himself, thereby denying the divinity of Christ. Accordingly, you must not be a Christian.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Ah. Incest will be big in decades to come, I see. It will be the issue that replaces homosexuality. Let us make excuses to allow sin to run rampant; make it subjective, erase God, destroy limits. Come, let us see how low we can go.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Ah. Incest will be big in decades to come, I see. It will be the issue that replaces homosexuality. Let us make excuses to allow sin to run rampant; make it subjective, erase God, destroy limits. Come, let us see how low we can go.
    Where did you get the idea that it was sin? Where in the Gospel did Jesus say that incest was a sin? If you believe that incest is a sin because it says so in the Pentateuch, shouldn't you then believe that Christians are bound by the rest of the Old Covenant as well?

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Ah. Incest will be big in decades to come, I see. It will be the issue that replaces homosexuality. Let us make excuses to allow sin to run rampant; make it subjective, erase God, destroy limits. Come, let us see how low we can go.
    Homosexuailty has emerged over the last 3 decades to the positon that it is in now, not as a result of the decay of the moral fabric of society, but as a result of the acquisition of knowledge which demonstrates that the human condition would benefit more from the acceptance of homosexuality than from condemning it. I am not sure whether there is any evidence of how accepting incest would benefit the human condition and so I do not see it as likely to change.

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