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Thread: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Christians also thought the earth was round, some also thought it was flat like others of the time. The Bible makes no claims other than to say "it was hung on nothing in nothing."
    Oh and that it had 4 corners and edges. But that is just a figure of speech.

    You know...I think all the verses condemning homosexual activity were also just figures of speech. Why not?

    I don't have to, history and common sense back me up.
    Well I'm not common so I don't get your sense.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Oh and that it had 4 corners and edges. But that is just a figure of speech.

    You know...I think all the verses condemning homosexual activity were also just figures of speech. Why not?
    You can go that route, makes you no less wrong. In fact it was not condemning just homosexuality. It condemned all sexual immorality including fornication and incest. Nothing figurative about those statements ever. Again, common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Well I'm not common so I don't get your sense.
    Not my fault amigo.
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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I) Using the bible to prove your point is futile. The bible proves nothing. It's a belief system. Not anything factual.
    I think it's fair to source a belief system's reference material because the OP is asking why homosexuality falls on the "wrong" side of any given belief system.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-05-10 at 08:16 PM.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I think it's fair to source a belief system's reference material because the OP is asking why homosexuality falls on the "wrong" side of any given belief system.
    Actually the OP asks specifically why the Bible prohibits it. Simply saying, "I believe it is wrong because the Bible prohibits it" is not really explaining the rational behind why it is condemned the Bible to begin with. It's nothing but ciruclar reasoning.

    Person A: I believe homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says so.
    Person B: Why does the Bible say it is wrong?
    Person A: Because God said so.
    Person B: Why do you believe God said that homosexuality is wrong?
    Person A: Because that is what it says in the Bible.

    You see? The OP is trying to get at the rational behind why the Bible/God find homosexuality to be wrong.

    So far the answer has been because it hurts God and/or your soul if you engage in homosexual acts. Of course, nobody really wants to explain why it hurts God and/or your soul to engage in such acts, and if you ask people how they know that, their answer is...the Bible says so.

    Can you see why secularists might think Christians are bat **** insane sometiimes?

    By contrast, it is easy to argue that murder and adultery are wrong because somebody typically gets hurt, but there really isn't any way to extend that reasoning to homosexuality. Well there is one way...if you take the Bible in historical context, homosexuality was typically practiced as rape or a form of pagan worship, not within monogamous relationships. As such, the Biblical condemnations of homosexuality may not have anything to do with the modern form of homosexuality that is expressed today. Of course, that would be taking the Bible in its historical context which is not something a lot of Christians like to do. They like form absolute rules form it, "man with man was wrong then and it is wrong now" instead of "man with man meant rape and pagan worship then so it was wrong then but it means monogamous relationships now, so it is less clear if it wrong." I'll never understand why Christians will choose to engage in circular reasoning when they can't justify why something is wrong instead of simply asking themselves, "well what made it wrong then"?

    And of course, if you ask Christians like Blackdog to explain why they do so, they get huffy and tell you they don't want to talk with you anymore.

    Needless to say, since a lot of Christians can't be honest with themselves, it is funner to poke fun at their beliefs and watch them come up with ceaseless circular reasoning to support them. It's like watching a Hamster run on a wheel.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 11-05-10 at 08:52 PM.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Actually the OP asks specifically why the Bible prohibits it.
    Well that's easy enough: in scripture the Lord says the 'land will vomit them (that society) out.' I guess Mother Earth doesn't like gays.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Of course, nobody really wants to explain why it hurts God and/or your soul to engage in such acts, and if you ask people how they know that, their answer is...the Bible says so.
    So no one mentioned the medical consequences of sodomy, even? That is surprising. Usually the religious zealots come out of the wood work chanting 'homosex poo & ass farts'.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    By contrast, it is easy to argue that murder and adultery are wrong because somebody typically gets hurt, but there really isn't any way to extend that reasoning to homosexuality.
    Being harmed isn't a very reliable rule as sometimes people need to be hurt; sometimes you need to hurt yourself to improve your situation over all. The 'harm principal' has been garbage since it's conception.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Well there is one way...if you take the Bible in historical context, homosexuality was typically practiced as rape or a form of pagan worship, not within monogamous relationships. As such, the Biblical condemnations of homosexuality may not have anything to do with the modern form of homosexuality that is expressed today. Of course, that would be taking the Bible in its historical context which is not something a lot of Christians like to do. They like form absolute rules form it, "man with man was wrong then and it is wrong now" instead of "man with man meant rape and pagan worship then so it was wrong then but it means monogamous relationships now, so it is less clear if it wrong." I'll never understand why Christians will choose to engage in circular reasoning when they can't justify why something is wrong instead of simply asking themselves, "well what made it wrong then"?

    ....ok......

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So no one mentioned the medical consequences of sodomy, even? That is surprising. Usually the religious zealots come out of the wood work chanting 'homosex poo & ass farts'.
    Actually I mentioned it. However, anal sex is practiced by heterosexuals as well. And it doesn't apply to lesbians. Not to mention only about half of gay men engage in it.

    Being harmed isn't a very reliable rule as sometimes people need to be hurt; sometimes you need to hurt yourself to improve your situation over all. The 'harm principal' has been garbage since it's conception.
    You are entilted to your values just as much as others are entitled to theirs. The "bitter medicine" argument was introduced long before Christianity but it does not negate the golden rule of simply, "Treat others as you wish to be treated" or as that dude in sandals said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

    ....ok......
    Don't hurt yourself thinking too much about it. If you are good I'll give you some fresh food pellots.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong
    Well, I ain't one of those people but I will opine, nevertheless.

    How can being gay be wrong? I suppose it all boils down to which set of right and wrong rules one finds themselves adhering to.

    Myself, I have to wonder HOW being gay could possibly be "wrong." Not being gay myself, I can only assume and try to understand. But since the beginning of mankind homosexuality has been inherent in all walks of human life. Maybe that trait might be considered taboo in certain societies, but it is only taboo because MAN made it taboo. They might claim their God made it taboo but do the math.

    Check out the irony. Call it hypocracy if you prefer.

    The irony is, the people who have the most problem with gays being gay usually come from a place where religious doctrine, or some other manmade social ideology, that dictates and mandates that a simple fact of nature, gays being gay, is considered "wrong." So the kicker is this, if they truly come from a religious place that condemns gays, don't they realize that it was their God who created gays to begin with? A part of His "perfect plan?" Right along with the stars, planets, oceans, birds and skies? If being gay is so wrong, rather than bashing the gays, maybe they oughta take it up with their God. He made 'em that way. Either believe or get off the pot.

    Either God made gays and you're saying God's creation is defective or God is perfect and gays are as much a part His plan as anything else in His creation. Reality and the dictates of reason say you can't have it both ways.

    But when has reality and the dictates of reason ever had anything in common with religion in the first place?
    Last edited by Captain America; 11-05-10 at 10:02 PM.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Well, I ain't one of those people but I will opine, nevertheless.

    How can being gay be wrong? I suppose it all boils down to which set of right and wrong rules one finds themselves adhering to.

    Myself, I have to wonder HOW being gay could possibly be "wrong." Not being gay myself, I can only assume and try to understand. But since the beginning of mankind homosexuality has been inherent in all walks of human life. Maybe that trait might be considered taboo in certain societies, but it is only taboo because MAN made it taboo. They might claim their God made it taboo but do the math.

    Check out the irony. Call it hypocracy if you prefer.

    The irony is, the people who have the most problem with gays being gay usually come from a place where religious doctrine, or some other manmade social ideology, that dictates and mandates that a simple fact of nature, gays being gay, is considered "wrong." So the kicker is this, if they truly come from a religious place that condemns gays, don't they realize that it was their God who created gays to begin with? A part of His "perfect plan?" Right along with the stars, planets, oceans, birds and skies? If being gay is so wrong, rather than bashing the gays, maybe they oughta take it up with their God. He made 'em that way. Either believe or get off the pot.

    Either God made gays and you're saying God's creation is defective or God is perfect and gays are as much a part His plan as anything else in His creation. Reality and the dictates of reason say you can't have it both ways.
    Then you either see incest as not a sin or you are a hypocrite.

    ?

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Then you either see incest as not a sin or you are a hypocrite.

    ?
    ROFL. I think he would have to believe in "sin" before he believed it was or was not a sin.

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    Re: Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Then you either see incest as not a sin or you are a hypocrite.

    ?
    I think nature gave us the inherent instinct to know that in-breeding is not conducive with self-preservation and can hardly be compared to homosexuality. That is not to say that mankind has not been known to pork a cousin or sister on occassion down through the ages, but it isn't as natural as rain, sunshine and homosexuality.

    We all are smart enough to know that drinking gasoline is not a healthy choice but I'm sure that somewhere, someone has done it before. Porkin' your sister is a choice not a "natural" instinct. I would bet a dollar to a donut that even a straight, somewhere down through history, has done acts of homosexuality. I don't consider those anomolies "natural" per se, but more of just the human brain doing stupid stuff human brains do from time to time. I can never be convinced that homosexuality is, across the board, a "choice." People are gay or they are not. Sure, there are not as many gays as straights, but they are as natural to humankind as an albino squirrel is to the gray squirrel family. It's just the way nature made us. Call it God, if you prefer.
    Last edited by Captain America; 11-05-10 at 10:18 PM.

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