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Thread: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

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    How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    These are the names of the sons of Israel (Jacob and his descendants) who went to Egypt:
    (1)Reuben the firstborn of Jacob.

    9 The sons of Reuben:
    (2)Hanoch, (3)Pallu, (4)Hezron and (5)Carmi.

    10 The sons of (6)Simeon:
    (7)Jemuel, (8)Jamin, (9)Ohad, (10)Jakin, (11)Zohar and (12)Shaul the son of a Canaanite woman.

    11 The sons of (13)Levi:
    (14)Gershon, (15)Kohath and (16)Merari.

    12 The sons of (17)Judah:
    (18)Er, (19)Onan, (20)Shelah, (21)Perez and (22)Zerah (but Er and Onan had died in the land of Canaan).
    The sons of Perez:
    (23)Hezron and (24)Hamul.

    13 The sons of (25)Issachar:
    (26)Tola, (27)Puah, [a] (28)Jashub [b] and (29)Shimron.

    14 The sons of (30)Zebulun:
    (31)Sered, (32)Elon and (33)Jahleel.

    15 These were the sons Leah bore to Jacob in Paddan Aram, [c] besides his daughter (34)Dinah. These sons and daughters of his were thirty-three in all.
    Genesis 46:8-15 - Passage*Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com

    Ok, so if we count each name, we can clearly see that there are 34. Then it says that there are only 33.

    Anyone care to try and defend biblical inerrancy in the face of such a clear contradiction?

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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    Shaul might not be officially counted if they weren't in a holy union when Shaul was conceived.

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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Shaul might not be officially counted if they weren't in a holy union when Shaul was conceived.
    So you think that his inclusion in the list was an error?

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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Shaul might not be officially counted if they weren't in a holy union when Shaul was conceived.
    Why then would any of Jacob's descendants through Zilpah be counted? Jacob and Zilpah were not in a holy union when Gad or Asher were conceived.

    The sons of Gad:
    Zephon, [d] Haggi, Shuni, Ezbon, Eri, Arodi and Areli.

    17 The sons of Asher:
    Imnah, Ishvah, Ishvi and Beriah.
    Their sister was Serah.
    The sons of Beriah:
    Heber and Malkiel.

    18 These were the children born to Jacob by Zilpah, whom Laban had given to his daughter Leah—sixteen in all.
    Same goes for his descendants through Bilhah, to whom he was similarly not in holy union with.

    The son of Dan:
    Hushim.

    24 The sons of Naphtali:
    Jahziel, Guni, Jezer and Shillem.

    25 These were the sons born to Jacob by Bilhah, whom Laban had given to his daughter Rachel—seven in all.

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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    As a side note, if you look at the prefacing remark, it says:

    These are the names of the sons of Israel (Jacob and his descendants) who went to Egypt:
    But then it goes on to include Er and Onan in the list, even though they never went to Egypt. They died in the land of Canaan before Jacob and his family left to meet Joseph and his sons in Egypt.

    Why does it claim to list one thing and then go on to list something else?

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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    15 These were the sons Leah bore to Jacob in Paddan Aram, [c] besides his daughter (34)Dinah. These sons and daughters of his were thirty-three in all.

    One could say that Dinah was excluded for some reason, and without her there is 33.

    Also
    Some alleged contradictions of the Bible are presented as a dilemma: “Was the Bible given by inspiration of God as indicated in 2 Timothy 3:16 or was it written by men as indicated in other passages (Luke 1:3; John 21:24)?” The implication is that only one of these can be true, and so, the Bible must contain errors. But this is the fallacy of the false dilemma because there is no reason why the Bible cannot be both inspired by God and also written by men. God used men to write His Word (2 Peter 1:21). Another example of a false dilemma is when two words or names are synonymous: Is Reuben the son of Jacob (Genesis 35:22–23), or the son of Israel (Genesis 46:8)? Both are true because Israel is Jacob.
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...s-introduction
    Last edited by digsbe; 08-31-10 at 10:13 PM.
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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    15 These were the sons Leah bore to Jacob in Paddan Aram, [c] besides his daughter (34)Dinah. These sons and daughters of his were thirty-three in all.

    One could say that Dinah was excluded for some reason, and without her there is 33.
    That doesn't work. First of all because Dinah was the only daughter listed, and it says quite specifically:

    These sons and daughters of his were thirty-three in all.
    Secondly, your equivocation of the word "besides" only works for the NIV.

    The NAS Bible translates it as:

    These are the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Paddan-aram, with his daughter Dinah; all his sons and his daughters numbered thirty-three.
    Genesis 46:15 - Passage*Lookup - New American Standard Bible - BibleGateway.com

    Then the KJV says:

    These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.
    Genesis 46:15 - Passage*Lookup - King James Version - BibleGateway.com

    And then there is the NLT

    These were the sons of Leah and Jacob who were born in Paddan-aram, in addition to their daughter, Dinah. The number of Jacob’s descendants (male and female) through Leah was thirty-three.
    Genesis 46:15 - Passage*Lookup - New Living Translation - BibleGateway.com

    Clearly the preposition in the statement is meant to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

    Also
    Some alleged contradictions of the Bible are presented as a dilemma: “Was the Bible given by inspiration of God as indicated in 2 Timothy 3:16 or was it written by men as indicated in other passages (Luke 1:3; John 21:24)?” The implication is that only one of these can be true, and so, the Bible must contain errors. But this is the fallacy of the false dilemma because there is no reason why the Bible cannot be both inspired by God and also written by men. God used men to write His Word (2 Peter 1:21). Another example of a false dilemma is when two words or names are synonymous: Is Reuben the son of Jacob (Genesis 35:22–23), or the son of Israel (Genesis 46:8)? Both are true because Israel is Jacob.
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...s-introduction
    I don't understand your point. Jacob having another name is rational and plausible. Saying that 34=33 is not rational or plausible. There is no false dilemma here.
    Last edited by Panache; 08-31-10 at 11:18 PM.

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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    It would seem that the daughter doesn't count. How does one have 33 sons and only one daughter?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are you criticizing her because she's black?

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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    It would seem that the daughter doesn't count. How does one have 33 sons and only one daughter?
    We know that the daughter counts because she is specifically included in the count:

    These sons and daughters of his were thirty-three in all.
    all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.
    The number of Jacob’s descendants (male and female) through Leah was thirty-three.
    There is no way to argue that the one daughter was excluded. If such were the case, it would simply read:
    These sons of his were thirty-three in all.
    Instead it specifically includes those with two x chromosomes. And since Dinah was the only one, she is specifically included.

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    Re: How many descendants did Jacob have through Leah?

    It looks like a translation error to me. It lists thirty-three sons, then says that the "sons and daughters" number thirty-three. It seems to me that it was a list of sons, with Dinah mentioned as an aside, and then the word for "sons" was mistranslated.

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