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Dear Atheists

I understand where the OP is coming from, but I have to agree that this is a debate forum where everything said can be contentious. Saying you believe in God but don't want to discuss it in a place like this is just painting a target on your head. They'll "sharpen their claws" on you simply because you are displaying weakness. There are some staunch anti-theists out there and they would see someone who refuses to justify their faith as someone who is blindly believing and part of the problem. At the same time, there is no real way to argue with anti-theists in a productive way since the whole premise comes down what you believe in and what you don't, which is why I tend to not take part in such discussions anymore.

I agree with Tashah. There are plenty of atheists who are content to just not believe and leave it at that, but there are others who make it their mission to extol negative virtues like arrogance and prejudice against religion. IMO they are a part of the problem just like staunch theists are.
 
Lesson learned. I will surely never do that again.

Orion said:
Saying you believe in God but don't want to discuss it in a place like this is just painting a target on your head.
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Orion said:
I understand where the OP is coming from, but I have to agree that this is a debate forum where everything said can be contentious. Saying you believe in God but don't want to discuss it in a place like this is just painting a target on your head.
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Not so.
However once you start to make Supernatural claims about a natural world... THAT is when the contentiousness justifiably starts.

At the same time, there is no real way to argue with anti-theists in a productive way since the whole premise comes down what you believe in and what you don't, which is why I tend to not take part in such discussions anymore.
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Exactly- there's no way to justify faith that isn't based on any demonstrable reality.
There are however many religous forums on the internet.
From ChristianForums.com, to Beliefnet, to Shiachat, etc.
This is not one of them.

I agree with Tashah. There are plenty of atheists who are content to just not believe and leave it at that, but there are others who make it their mission to extol negative virtues like arrogance and prejudice against religion. IMO they are a part of the problem Just Like staunch theists are.
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So that people like, most famously at the moment, "staunch atheist" Richard Dawkins are a problem just like Osama, Ayatollah, Westover Baptist, Robertson, etc.

This is not a justified allegation
I reject this 'moral equivalence'. That's a term we all know.
While not a god-ist, I am a moralist.
 
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BDBoop said:
I'm not griping so much as perplexed. Is it true that I cannot say I am a woman of faith? Does it perforce mean that you get to sharpen your debate claws on my beliefs? Scourge99, specifically.

The title of the thread was why do people believe in God. I answered the title. There was nothing in the title to indicate that I needed to explain or defend anything. So I simply answered by saying "I'm very protective of my faith, it's not actually up for discussion. All I am willing to say in this thread is it's a gift - and I don't believe the basis of faith can be explained."

Maybe I'm one of those few-and-far-between Christians who does not preach, or judge. I'm more like a 60's hippie. "Hey man; whatever man. If it makes you happy." I mean, I'm a liberal ffs. I swear like a sailor. Willful ignorance is my biggest pet peeve. I can't stand bullies. I am a Very Bad Christian (as the label in America goes these days). And (shock-n-awe, y'all) - I treat people and their beliefs with dignity and respect and actually expect the same in return. It's karmic, doncha know. Yah.

So, dear atheists. When I say my faith is not up for discussion, please note that I'm not attacking your personal non-belief system, and return the favor.

Kthxbai. :peace

Oh, p.s.: If you strongly feel you must call me on this, kindly start your own thread. I actually believe you can comport yourself as an adult with some level of compassion and understanding.
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Welcome to my world. I've been here a while and it is very rare on DP that you can discuss ANYTHING related to religion or spirtuality without one (or several) hyper-athiests jumping in with irrelevant and rude comments about sky-faries and spaghetti monsters, and IMO they get way too much slack from the mods before getting called down for jerky behavior.

Now OTOH I've had a number of intresting and informative discussions with people of other faiths. Korimyr and I have discussed our respective beliefs on several occasions (he's a pagan), with mutual respect shown for each other's beliefs. This doesn't mean I believe in his gods or that he believes in mine, it just means we both have better sense than to get in a pissing contest over something that boils down to individual faith.

I've had agreeable discussions with jews and muslims about religion, where mutual respect was shown.

There are one or two DP atheists who are capable of talking about religion without becoming insulting and hysterical, but they are few and far between; we seem to have more than our share of hyper-atheists on DP whose knee-jerk reaction to hearing the word "God" is to go off on a mouth-foaming screaming rant. :roll:

It's gotten to the point (some time ago really) that I tend to avoid any sort of religious discussion on DP at all. Or, if I just HAVE to say something, it will likely be one post and then I walk away from it.

Frankly I don't know why the hyper-atheists get away with insulting posts that wouldn't be tolerated if they were directed at a race, gender or "orientation".
 
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BDBoop said:
I'm not griping so much as perplexed. Is it true that I cannot say I am a woman of faith? Does it perforce mean that you get to sharpen your debate claws on my beliefs? Scourge99, specifically.
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I find it interesting that I have had more pleasant conversations with other religious people rather than the non religious, there are exceptions to that ofc.
 
Usually, because that's the kind of poster I am, I'll winnow a post down to the main point I'm in agreement with and THAT will be the point I respond to. Your entire post had so many good points, I don't want to take anything out.

Especially who you know that you can have mutual respect discussions with. I have many such friends in real life. One is my best friend, and aside from the fact that she is (no exaggeration) the most brilliant woman I ever met, she has lived one helluva life, she has a near-photographic memory when it comes to said life, and she will answer any question I put to her without any sign of rolling eyeballs or unspoken "derp!" I know as much as I know about Judaism because of her. That's a darn sight more than I knew two years ago, before we became friends.

Thanks, Goshin. Good post.

Goshin said:
Welcome to my world. I've been here a while and it is very rare on DP that you can discuss ANYTHING related to religion or spirtuality without one (or several) hyper-athiests jumping in with irrelevant and rude comments about sky-faries and spaghetti monsters, and IMO they get way too much slack from the mods before getting called down for jerky behavior.

Now OTOH I've had a number of intresting and informative discussions with people of other faiths. Korimyr and I have discussed our respective beliefs on several occasions (he's a pagan), with mutual respect shown for each other's beliefs. This doesn't mean I believe in his gods or that he believes in mine, it just means we both have better sense than to get in a pissing contest over something that boils down to individual faith.

I've had agreeable discussions with jews and muslims about religion, where mutual respect was shown.

There are one or two DP atheists who are capable of talking about religion without becoming insulting and hysterical, but they are few and far between; we seem to have more than our share of hyper-atheists on DP whose knee-jerk reaction to hearing the word "God" is to go off on a mouth-foaming screaming rant. :roll:

It's gotten to the point (some time ago really) that I tend to avoid any sort of religious discussion on DP at all. Or, if I just HAVE to say something, it will likely be one post and then I walk away from it.

Frankly I don't know why the hyper-atheists get away with insulting posts that wouldn't be tolerated if they were directed at a race, gender or "orientation".
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I'm going to be a bit careful about how I phrase this. I don't speak for anybody but myself. But let's just assume you all are right, and there is no God or Gods or gods. All of us who believed were wrong.

Why does it matter to you. Does your absence of faith mean you get to treat people as less than? Because every major religion (which, by the way; I don't belong to one) has some version of the Golden Rule. Or as my original bumper sticker herein stated "Karma's only a bitch if you are."

You have stated that if people show up in here, they have no right to be treated with common decency and respect if they say something you disagree with. Re-read the thread if you don't believe me. Nobody is entitled to faith or privacy as long as you lot are standing guard. Right? Why is it so important. Back to my first paragraph, hanging question. I fall over dead, and find out Much to My Dismay that there is no God, there is in fact nothingness. Why is it so very important to you that I believe that before I pass? Why can't I have all the magic you want me to forfeit? If it's a crutch, I need it. I need it. My life has been a fair amount of hell. If I'm still standing and cracking jokes after what I've been through, then ****ing BooYAH! I'm entitled to believe in whatever got me through.

And yes. I do feel better for having said this. Thanks for asking.
 
BDBoop said:
I'm not griping so much as perplexed. Is it true that I cannot say I am a woman of faith? Does it perforce mean that you get to sharpen your debate claws on my beliefs? Scourge99, specifically.

The title of the thread was why do people believe in God. I answered the title. There was nothing in the title to indicate that I needed to explain or defend anything. So I simply answered by saying "I'm very protective of my faith, it's not actually up for discussion. All I am willing to say in this thread is it's a gift - and I don't believe the basis of faith can be explained."

Maybe I'm one of those few-and-far-between Christians who does not preach, or judge. I'm more like a 60's hippie. "Hey man; whatever man. If it makes you happy." I mean, I'm a liberal ffs. I swear like a sailor. Willful ignorance is my biggest pet peeve. I can't stand bullies. I am a Very Bad Christian (as the label in America goes these days). And (shock-n-awe, y'all) - I treat people and their beliefs with dignity and respect and actually expect the same in return. It's karmic, doncha know. Yah.

So, dear atheists. When I say my faith is not up for discussion, please note that I'm not attacking your personal non-belief system, and return the favor.

Kthxbai. :peace

Oh, p.s.: If you strongly feel you must call me on this, kindly start your own thread. I actually believe you can comport yourself as an adult with some level of compassion and understanding.
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Sorry but no.I dont think the purpose of this website is for people to state their opinion and not expect to be challenged on it.In fact its very much the opposite.If you really think whatever anyone wants to believe or every opinion is equal why are you on a site called debate politics? I dont mean to sound mean and you seem very nice but hey i disagree.
 
BDBoop said:
I'm going to be a bit careful about how I phrase this. I don't speak for anybody but myself. But let's just assume you all are right, and there is no God or Gods or gods. All of us who believed were wrong.

Why does it matter to you. Does your absence of faith mean you get to treat people as less than? Because every major religion (which, by the way; I don't belong to one) has some version of the Golden Rule. Or as my original bumper sticker herein stated "Karma's only a bitch if you are."

You have stated that if people show up in here, they have no right to be treated with common decency and respect if they say something you disagree with. Re-read the thread if you don't believe me. Nobody is entitled to faith or privacy as long as you lot are standing guard. Right? Why is it so important. Back to my first paragraph, hanging question. I fall over dead, and find out Much to My Dismay that there is no God, there is in fact nothingness. Why is it so very important to you that I believe that before I pass? Why can't I have all the magic you want me to forfeit? If it's a crutch, I need it. I need it. My life has been a fair amount of hell. If I'm still standing and cracking jokes after what I've been through, then ****ing BooYAH! I'm entitled to believe in whatever got me through.

And yes. I do feel better for having said this. Thanks for asking.
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because we are all effected by the beliefs of other people.
 
I expect to be challenged. I also expect, just as in any other challenge, to be able to refuse to accept said challenge.

I'm in my early 50's. I've known for some years now that you have to pick your battles. I'm not willing to take one for the Gipper when it comes to my faith.

I'm generally an open book. I've shared a LOT on this board. I'm betting everybody has something that is not open for discussion. I've seen a fair amount of them treating each other like dirt because they don't want their beliefs questioned, either. I just chose to walk away rather than get into a non-productive shrieking match.

You know who I invited to this board? Al Stefanelli. Have a Google hit. He's a great guy.

mikhail said:
Sorry but no.I dont think the purpose of this website is for people to state their opinion and not expect to be challenged on it.In fact its very much the opposite.If you really think whatever anyone wants to believe or every opinion is equal why are you on a site called debate politics? I dont mean to sound mean and you seem very nice but hey i disagree.
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I'm sorry. That doesn't make any sense to me. Need more information. As I take it, I should share my faith because it will affect everybody? No it won't. I'm not one of those "This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine!" people. I'm perfectly happy hiding my light under a bushel, because it's my personal faith relationship. There are enough people out there talking and sharing that me refusing isn't going to make a bit of difference and? I can guaran-damn-tee you that nobody wants me to share because they might learn something of import. They want me to share so they can try to destroy it before my eyes. Thank you, but no.

mikhail said:
because we are all effected by the beliefs of other people.
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BDBoop said:
I expect to be challenged. I also expect, just as in any other challenge, to be able to refuse to accept said challenge.

I'm in my early 50's. I've known for some years now that you have to pick your battles. I'm not willing to take one for the Gipper when it comes to my faith.

I'm generally an open book. I've shared a LOT on this board. I'm betting everybody has something that is not open for discussion. I've seen a fair amount of them treating each other like dirt because they don't want their beliefs questioned, either. I just chose to walk away rather than get into a non-productive shrieking match.

You know who I invited to this board? Al Stefanelli. Have a Google hit. He's a great guy.
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Well if you start a post on the subject you dont wanna be challenged on its a little different.If you really dont wanna talk about your faith you dont have to.
 
BDBoop said:
I'm sorry. That doesn't make any sense to me. Need more information. As I take it, I should share my faith because it will affect everybody? No it won't. I'm not one of those "This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine!" people. I'm perfectly happy hiding my light under a bushel, because it's my personal faith relationship. There are enough people out there talking and sharing that me refusing isn't going to make a bit of difference and? I can guaran-damn-tee you that nobody wants me to share because they might learn something of import. They want me to share so they can try to destroy it before my eyes. Thank you, but no.
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I never said you had to share anything.However you seem to be saying i want to post that my faith should be respected but i dont want that post to be challenged because it shouldnt be challenged because im not mentioning it.
 
My faith is challenged all the damn time. But by LIFE. Not by a nameless, faceless bunch of people I don't know.

mikhail said:
I never said you had to share anything.However you seem to be saying i want to post that my faith should be respected but i dont want that post to be challenged because it shouldnt be challenged because im not mentioning it.
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BDBoop said:
My faith is challenged all the damn time. But by LIFE. Not by a nameless, faceless bunch of people I don't know.
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So then why do you give a **** what nameless, faceless bunch of people write on an internet debate board so much?
 
BDBoop said:
My faith is challenged all the damn time. But by LIFE. Not by a nameless, faceless bunch of people I don't know.
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I dont feel im being rude.Im just pointing out your posting about your religious beliefs on here and acting like they shouldnt be challenged for some reason.
 
Please. What is the point of a debate board if nobody gives a **** what anybody thinks or says. Or any forum? There wouldn't be any. I said I don't need to be challenged by them, as I am by life. Like gravitates to like. I am not drawn to people who challenge by behaving badly.

Ikari said:
So then why do you give a **** what nameless, faceless bunch of people write on an internet debate board so much?
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1) You're not being rude

2) They shouldn't be challenged. I know you all don't get it, and frankly it's possible you never will. Some of us have already been through enough **** in real life. We don't need to put ourselves in the line of fire because somebody says them's the rules. Until I see a mod pointing it out in the rules, or even THE (founding) mod, saying "you stated your beliefs, now you must fight to the death to hold them"? I'm not going to.

I'm fine with things as they stand. I've enjoyed posting in this thread. They're coming across as 17 kinds of bent, but I can't honestly care.



mikhail said:
I dont feel im being rude.Im just pointing out your posting about your religious beliefs on here and acting like they shouldnt be challenged for some reason.
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BDBoop said:
Please. What is the point of a debate board if nobody gives a **** what anybody thinks or says. Or any forum? There wouldn't be any. I said I don't need to be challenged by them, as I am by life. Like gravitates to like. I am not drawn to people who challenge by behaving badly.
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To hone your arguments and debate skills so that if you meet people you do care about or could influence you can do a better job. What did you think the point was? Most people on these types of boards have their minds set one way or another.So it's not like you stand a great chance of changing minds. But you can get information about their arguments, you can get references for your own. You can refine your argument with like minded people and pit your arguments against others. It's a challenge and a competition.

Like gravitates to like with gravity. However, the electromagnetic force, which is magnitudes greater than gravity, opposites attract. It's pretty boring if you surround yourself all with the same type of folk.
 
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Good point - I just abstain from the challenge and competition bit. "if you meet people you do care about or could influence you can do a better job" ... I don't think that's how I work. It took me way too many years to gain autonomy, I don't want to change anybody except by being the best person I can be. I do that by being there for them, mostly by listening, hearing, and being supportive.

I have already found that people I disagree vehemently with can be really good, cool people as another facet of their being. And I wouldn't have met them if I hadn't washed up here, so ... :shrug: I'm glad I did.

Ikari said:
To hone your arguments and debate skills so that if you meet people you do care about or could influence you can do a better job. What did you think the point was? Most people on these types of boards have their minds set one way or another.So it's not like you stand a great chance of changing minds. But you can get information about their arguments, you can get references for your own. You can refine your argument with like minded people and pit your arguments against others. It's a challenge and a competition.

Like gravitates to like with gravity. However, the electromagnetic force, which is magnitudes greater than gravity, opposites attract. It's pretty boring if you surround yourself all with the same type of folk.
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MaggieD said:
Saw that exchange. Completely understood your position. You were entitled to post your thoughts and entitled to set your boundaries. There's no use trying to justify one's faith to the faithless. It's a waste of bandwith and air. That's why they call it faith.

Scourge99 was looking for a debate/argument. You chose not to give him one. I say, "You go, girl."
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He was looking for a debate or argument??? On a debate forum?????? You've got to be kidding.
 
I am just tickled to death that I made scourge99 run for cover and drop out of debate with me, and I am a believer. Cheap bastard.
 
Phfft. Not everybody who wanders in here has to be fodder.

Dezaad said:
He was looking for a debate or argument??? On a debate forum?????? You've got to be kidding.
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Link? Because I'm evil that way. ;)

reefedjib said:
I am just tickled to death that I made scourge99 run for cover and drop out of debate with me, and I am a believer. Cheap bastard.
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