Is not Christ the most significant figure in history?

The claims made in this post are numerous. I will handle them one at a time.

cpwill said:

and the texts are pretty painstakingly accurate; not to mention numerous and pretty close to time-of-writing.

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Which parts of the texts are accurate? Accuracy would presume there is some way to confirm or verify the accuracy? What makes them accurate? Are the events that transpire in the book Gone with the Wind accurate because Gone with the Wind mentions non-fictional people, events and places? I think not.

cpwill said:

Jesus claimed on multiple occasions to be God,

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That depends on which version of the Bible you read. Why do you believe there are so mnay variations of Bibles and manuscripts? According to Bart Ehrman, there are more variations in our manuscripts of the New Testament than there are WORDS in the New testament. Granted most are minor variations, but some such as Jesus "saving an adulteress from stoning" and the last 10 verses of Mark (maybe Matthew I forget) are strongly believed by most scholars to be additions and alterations to the texts. Some more questioned passages are the ones depicting Jesus sweating blood and the ones confirming trinitarian concepts and divinity concepts.

cpwill said:

which is why he was eventually killed.

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Only if we assume that the texts are a non-fictional reports of events. We have no reason to conclude they are. We only have fervent believers who claim they are and the book claiming that it is true. Not exactly convincing evidence for anyone who does not already accept them is truth.

cpwill said:

there would have been no reason to kill "just a really nice guy who's a new scholar" who nonetheless refused to rebel against or theologically back any earthly authority.

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Who says he even existed or was even executed? We don't have any corroborating evidence that such an event occurred. Jesus fits all the characteristics of a myth.
Lord' Raglan's Hero Pattern

cpwill said:

All Christians believe he is God; that is literally the central belief of our religion. you can call yourself whatever you like, but deny that and you are not a Christian, you are something else. Gnosticism (like most heresies) is not new.

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THis is the classical "no true scottsman" fallacy.[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman]No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

There were plenty of sects who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus including Unitarian Universlists today who would claim to be Christian.

instead he claimed for himself and only for himself the ability to forgive all sins

Jesus claimed on multiple occasions to be God

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no, he did not. he was killed for sedition. because he made claims that, so far as the jewish leaders were concerned, usurped the authority judean religious leadership and of Yahewh.

All Christians believe he is God; that is literally the central belief of our religion.

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no, all christians believe he was the messiah. no where do any of the prediction of moshiach qualify him as God. Most early christians did not see him as god. Not all christians believe him to have been god even today.

isn't that what you folks are always accusing us of doing

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i never accused YOU or any christian of doing anything. You are free to see him or the fella down on the corner leaning against the lamppost as divine.

and... what false? I'll repeat: NONE of these things was recorded during his lifetime nor during the lifetimes of the Apostles.

the epistles were written BEFORE the gospels, c50ce.

Luke (and acts) were written first, c70ad, shortly after the Bar Kochba judean rebellion and the destruction of Jerusalem. if any of the apostles were alive at this time, they would have been upwards of 90 years old.

More than 5,000 manuscripts of the New Testament exist today in the original Greek language. When counting translations into other languages, the number is a staggering 24,000—dating from the 2nd to 4th centuries.

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would you like to try to qualify that? there is not believed to be a single original copy of any of the gospels extant. see . Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

the nearest Greek/Aramaic of the original Hebrew text is 29 years after the original and is dated to c125ce.

you are refuting arguments never made. I never suggested that i doubted the historocity of jesus of nazarath. I do not. there is no reason to do so aside from a personal wish to discredit the faith, which is not my wish.

that was never my argument. my argument is that he did not present himself to be god in the flesh. Generally speaking, his followers did not see him as god in the flesh. That he is believed to be now was not a fundamental aspect of christianity

Again, THIS is as close as he ever got:

"I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"

against that, try

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

not me, only god and we are not the same.

But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.

what jesus heard from god and told to others.

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The denials are a lot less ambiguous than the presumed declaration. and no, most of his early followers saw his as a conduit to god, not god himself:

Because he (that is, God) hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man (that is, jesus of nazareth) whom he (god) hath ordained; whereof he (god) hath given assurance unto all men, in that he (god) hath raised him (the man, jesus) from the dead.
- Acts 17

Jesus was formally DECLARED to be Yahweh's equal (essentially, God himself) by the first Council Of Nicea, c325ce, convened largely for that purpose in refuting Arianism, the ideas of Arius who preached that jesus had been created BY God and so could not be God himself. Even so, many rejected the declaration (see Pelagius). many still do not;

consider “But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels ... neither the Son, but the Father.”"
- Mark 13

only god, not the son of god ....

geo.

I too could be the most significant figure in history if i could convince millions to slaughter billions more people if they refuse to believe that i am some kind of god reborn, over several millennium.

I guess...only, you should change the wording to... to the greatest charletan in history. Goodness, did he boondoggle people for what?

Is it not immensely compelling to you that this poor Jew born in a barn under the thumb of mighty Rome is the most influential man to ever walk the earth? Does it not strike you that no king, scientist or other figure has had such an impact on history as this poor child raised by a carpenter?

Jesus sure has had an impact on my life . . . .
so much to look forward to

Matt633 said:

Is not Christ the most significant figure in history?

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Well he was the youngest man in history ever to break a hymen...

Jesus Christ: the most significant figure in history

Well he was the youngest man in history ever to break a hymen...




yeah, that would be true .. from the other direction ??

the only man born free of a sinful nature

Re: Jesus Christ: the most significant figure in history

dadman said:

Well he was the youngest man in history ever to break a hymen...




yeah, that would be true .. from the other direction ??

the only man born free of a sinful nature

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So sex is sinful?
And...

You actually believe that virgin birth garbage?

Re: Jesus Christ: the most significant figure in history

Caine: "So sex is sinful?"

sex is only sinful outside the perameter God designed it for

and yes . . . God can do anything

Re: Jesus Christ: the most significant figure in history

Gerardus Mercator has influenced how we all view our planet for the last 400 years.

Re: Jesus Christ: the most significant figure in history

dadman said:

Caine: "So sex is sinful?"

sex is only sinful outside the perameter God designed it for

and yes . . . God can do anything

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[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births[/ame]



Yes, God also must have caused all the other mythological people that were born of a virgin.