niftydrifty vs. Felicity: The Eucharist, real or symbolic?

niftydrifty · 04-05-08, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

I see you commented on the blog I linked to and referred it to this thread. Great--I hope many others come to recognize the error of their perceptions about the Catholic Faith and see that Jesus Himself instructed those who believe his words to do as He commands and eat his literal flesh.

you're welcome, although I doubt that even "the most basic reader" will come to such a conclusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

As for what is in error in the Heidelberg Catechism, it is NOT that the Catholic Faith holds that at the consecration the bread and wine become the literal body and blood of Jesus--that is accurate--the problem with the statement in Q&A 80 is this:

1."the [Roman Catholic] Mass teaches that the living and the dead do not have their sins forgiven through the suffering of Christ"

utterly FALSE--Catholics most certainly do believe that Christ's sacrifice on the cross is the means of forgiveness of sins--and the ONLY means. Jesus is the Paschal Lamb of God and the source and summit of all Catholic worship.

you don't seem to realize that you've taken a single statement, a sentence containing a condition following "unless..." ... and broken it in two as if you can remark about it in two parts.

to refute the first half of the statement, as though the "unless" does not exist, makes no sense at all.

example:

niftydrifty: "I always walk to work unless it's raining outside."

Felicity: "you don't ALWAYS walk to work!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

2. "unless Christ is still offered for them daily by the priests."

AGAIN...utterly FALSE--Christ's SINGULAR sacrificial act is presently carried out through the Divine Mystery of the Eucharist at each Mass. It makes no difference to individual's salvation whether Christ's sacrifice is offered daily or not. It is--many times a day--but it is Christ alone who is the Salvation of the World.

so exactly what is the CRC wrong about? that it isn't once a day anymore?

ok, not only that. the CRC is wrong about something else: that the RCC hasn't really changed at all on this matter, have they? question 80 should stay, as is, except for the "daily" part. I'll notify them immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

3. "It also teaches that Christ is bodily present in the form of bread and wine where Christ is therefore to be worshipped."

There is no worship of anything but God Himself as He makes Himself present to mankind through the Eucharistic miracle appearing as though bread and wine, but in actuality BEING Christ Himself.

4. "Thus the Mass is basically nothing but a denial of the one sacrifice and suffering of Jesus Christ and a condemnable idolatry"

Again--see above.

Quotes in green are from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the numbers refer to the paragraphs where the information can be located.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of the Eucharist

Why did Christ allow those whom He told to "eat my flesh and drink my blood" walk away in their disgust and rejection of Him? --Because they did NOT believe in Him--they rather believed their own wisdom because what Christ calls us to believe is "a hard teaching." The disciples who left did so because they could not bear to hear the Truth--it was too unseemly, and flew in the face of their own human understanding. Nonetheless--if we are to follow the Word of God, we must follow His words--"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

we've been over this before, and you had no actual evidence to support your opinions about what the text said, or the position of the Catholic Church, other than the "miracles." I don't believe that Christ lied.

I'm glad I re-read my catechism recently. I had never given much care to what it had to say about the RCC, obviously. But now that I know a little bit about the subject, I've found that the Heidelberg Catechism sums up the whole matter accurately and succinctly.

things made with human hands should not be worshipped. the Bible is quite clear.

condemnable idolatry, it is.

Felicity · 04-05-08, 09:03 PM

The thread evidence speaks for itself, niftydrifty, and where you are coming from does as well.

04-05-08, 09:03 PM	#42
Felicity Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Last Seen: 10-06-09 01:03 PM Posts: 11,946 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,722 Times in 1,322 Posts Total Awards: 2	Re: niftydrifty vs. Felicity: The Eucharist, real or symbolic? The thread evidence speaks for itself, niftydrifty, and where you are coming from does as well.

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