Five European states back burka ban

As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news it's too late to stop Muslim influence in Europe or North America.

The spread of members of this cult of hate and repression are set to dominate the world if the spread of of the cult is not stopped and very soon.

Only a cult teaches a reward for the murder of innocent people and subjugates and represses woman.

Until the west has guts enough to tell the truth about this cult the war on terror and the spread of the cult will continue.

I don't see the wearing of the Burka as a threat but the teachings most certainly are a threat to Governments and anyone who will not submit to the cult.

Muslim Demographics Video

FT.com / Europe - Five European states back burka ban

By James Blitz
Published: March 1 2010 16:54 | Last updated: March 1 2010 16:54

More than half of voters in four other major European states back a push by France’s Nicolas Sarkozy to ban women from wearing the burka, according to an opinion poll for the Financial Times.

As Mr Sarkozy presses ahead with plans to ban the wearing of the burka in public places, the FT’s latest Harris poll shows the move is not just strongly supported in France, but wins enthusiastic backing in the UK, Italy, Spain and Germany.

The poll shows some 70 per cent of respondents in France said they supported plans to forbid the wearing of the garment which covers the female body from head to toe. There was similar sentiment in Spain and Italy, where 65 per cent and 63 per cent respectively favored a ban.

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In the US we do have an opposing force on the rise. Hispanics are Catholics, and their numbers are growing. Nevertheless, the first amendment is the shield against potential Islamic tyranny.

Councilman said:

As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news it's too late to stop Muslim influence in Europe or North America.

The spread of members of this cult of hate and repression are set to dominate the world if the spread of of the cult is not stopped and very soon.

Only a cult teaches a reward for the murder of innocent people and subjugates and represses woman.

Until the west has guts enough to tell the truth about this cult the war on terror and the spread of the cult will continue.

I don't see the wearing of the Burka as a threat but the teachings most certainly are a threat to Governments and anyone who will not submit to the cult.

Muslim Demographics Video

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Wow, what hateful cult are you a member of?

I clicked on this expecting to read up on the progress France has made in the last 6 years or so. They aren't trying to ban the burka to discourage the Muslim faith, it's because you can't tell who's wearing it.

I really don't understand the opinions of some people... How can you talk about hate while embracing it yourself?

I'm not against the Muslim-faith and such in general.
I'm against those who go overboard with it all and become viligent about 'spreading the good word' or whatnot on others through violence and force, etc. This can apply to any religion and any faith, really. It's not the general belief or religion, it's the people who take it to the extremes - for me, anyway.

Banning burqas is like banning the wearing of a cross, sari, headscarf, yamaka, habit, a kesa, alb or stole or hairstyles like the Rasta and a queue . . . the list can go on.

I think it's offensive to pick ONE religion out and say "you're bad, the others are all ok"

People need to grow up, let go of a the paranoia, and act like adults - not like bullies on a playground or snotty little girls with their 'girls only' club.

I use to think it was sexist, actually- and was against the burqa and such.
But I read one American woman's view of it, she said that it made her life easier - she always had the right clothes picked out, she never had to worry about her clothes and how they looked, and her hair, and she felt comfortable. She didn't feel oppressed.

Well - I'm sure some women don't like it just the same as some women who DO like it.

So people should really be advocating for it to be a choice - not for just making the choice on behalf of someone who might not mind wearing such-n-such.

Its like my Dad and his ministerial shirts (a cassock-style shirt with a tab in the collar). He doesn't HAVE to wear them - but he likes to.

Jray573 said:

Wow, what hateful cult are you a member of?

I clicked on this expecting to read up on the progress France has made in the last 6 years or so. They aren't trying to ban the burka to discourage the Muslim faith, it's because you can't tell who's wearing it.

I really don't understand the opinions of some people... How can you talk about hate while embracing it yourself?

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So now its hateful to oppose one culture entering another country and trying to force it to conform to its culture.

I don't understand the opinions of people like you either.

A couple of points here I would offer is that banning the Burka does not necessarily target Islam per se, since there is nothing in Islam that actually commands its use. Now, it is certainly misogynistic, the knuckle dragging troglodytes who view women as property are some of the lowest forms of life on the planet, and this revolting anachronism may have no place in a liberal, western society, but it isn't all of Islam supporting it -- only the Islamists. While I would call the Islamists a cult, I would not call all of Islam a cult, since not all of Islam supports it. It may represent PART of Islam just as Landover Babtist represents part of Christianity, but it only furthers the divide to fail to distinguish between Islam and Islamists.

From where I sit, I'd say there are way too many people who fail to distinguish between Islam and Islamism across the political spectrum. Those on the right tend to lump both together and assail the entire religion, while those on the left are so eager to defend the religion that they indulge in apologia for the Islamism. Neither attitude is especially helpful in the west where there is most definitely a growing population of Islamists who want to subvert the existing cultures, but also Muslims who have assimilated and support western ways.

Aunt Spiker said:

I'm not against the Muslim-faith and such in general.
I'm against those who go overboard with it all and become viligent about 'spreading the good word' or whatnot on others through violence and force, etc. This can apply to any religion and any faith, really. It's not the general belief or religion, it's the people who take it to the extremes - for me, anyway.

Banning burqas is like banning the wearing of a cross, sari, headscarf, yamaka, habit, a kesa, alb or stole or hairstyles like the Rasta and a queue . . . the list can go on.

I think it's offensive to pick ONE religion out and say "you're bad, the others are all ok"

People need to grow up, let go of a the paranoia, and act like adults - not like bullies on a playground or snotty little girls with their 'girls only' club.

I use to think it was sexist, actually- and was against the burqa and such.
But I read one American woman's view of it, she said that it made her life easier - she always had the right clothes picked out, she never had to worry about her clothes and how they looked, and her hair, and she felt comfortable. She didn't feel oppressed.

Well - I'm sure some women don't like it just the same as some women who DO like it.

So people should really be advocating for it to be a choice - not for just making the choice on behalf of someone who might not mind wearing such-n-such.

Its like my Dad and his ministerial shirts (a cassock-style shirt with a tab in the collar). He doesn't HAVE to wear them - but he likes to.

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Have you even seen a burka? Doesn't sound like it to make such a ridiculous comparison to other religious symbols.

Aunt Spiker said:

I use to think it was sexist, actually- and was against the burqa and such.
But I read one American woman's view of it, she said that it made her life easier - she always had the right clothes picked out, she never had to worry about her clothes and how they looked, and her hair, and she felt comfortable. She didn't feel oppressed.

.

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Is she one of these women, by any chance?

I think the burka is stupid, but so is trying to ban it.

Now, there is a Euro policy I can appreciate!

texmaster said:

Have you even seen a burka? Doesn't sound like it to make such a ridiculous comparison to other religious symbols.

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Whats the deal to you? You're not wearing it. It doesn't affect you, reflect on you or mean anything to you. You just look at them - sometimes.

Honestly - I think the only thing that bothers people is the face covering. And not because of why they are suppose to cover the face - but because you simply cannot see the face. It mentally alienates you. Of course, you're presuming that ALL burqas have a face covering and they do not - sometimes they're one garment and sometimes the face covering (hajib or niqab and other names) is separate or not worn at all.

If it was the entire garb then you would, also, be against the habit - which is a head-to-toe covering for a nun. They vary sect to sect but usually are the same idea.
The Cassock - which is a male version of a nuns habit and take on a 'dress appearance - only no head covering.
The alb - which is a religious robe worn by monks.
Various dresses worn by the Apostolic Pentecostal women, as well as their long hair.

The only difference between these and the burqa, niqab and chador is that they do not require covering the face in some fashion.
So why aren't you against those things?

You just don't respect people's right to have their faith and live how they want to live and find it personally offensive when someone has a style that you consider different.

If you find it offensive you should support the women who DON'T want to wear it in their effort to break away from this body-garb tradition. NOT just pasting all with a "you can't do it anymore"

But some women do want to wear them for whatever reason and they should be allowed to if they see fit to do so.

I don't think you realized that this law is forcing something on women who might have gone their entire lives without having to show their body/face in public - I imagine that suddenly being forced to go without would be quite embarrassing and difficult to go through with for some. I can also imagine that some would rather just be a shut in than feel like people are always looking at them.

Apparently you don't realize what its like to feel like everyone is looking at you and gawking when you've changed your appearance. . . and for it to be forced on some of them, I can imagine that's just unpleasant to say the least.

Oh - but your visual-preferences while walking down the street are apparently more important than someone's personal comfort.

If they mind and don't want to wear it then they shouldn't HAVE to - but no one can tell a religion what to require and what not to require for its followers. So, of course, people will support a biased and senseless war against one religions attire, instead.

Whats more absurd than everyones bias is that some things have actually been strongly sexualized - like a nun's habit.
Thus - are you ever going to grow equal opposition and outrage for the nuns on their behalf? Or against their required habit?

I don't think so.

Gardener said:

A couple of points here I would offer is that banning the Burka does not necessarily target Islam per se, since there is nothing in Islam that actually commands its use. Now, it is certainly misogynistic, the knuckle dragging troglodytes who view women as property are some of the lowest forms of life on the planet, and this revolting anachronism may have no place in a liberal, western society, but it isn't all of Islam supporting it -- only the Islamists. While I would call the Islamists a cult, I would not call all of Islam a cult, since not all of Islam supports it. It may represent PART of Islam just as Landover Babtist represents part of Christianity, but it only furthers the divide to fail to distinguish between Islam and Islamists.

From where I sit, I'd say there are way too many people who fail to distinguish between Islam and Islamism across the political spectrum. Those on the right tend to lump both together and assail the entire religion, while those on the left are so eager to defend the religion that they indulge in apologia for the Islamism. Neither attitude is especially helpful in the west where there is most definitely a growing population of Islamists who want to subvert the existing cultures, but also Muslims who have assimilated and support western ways.

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****** This Assimilation might be less than You think. Also a Minority of a Minority can control things simply by dealing Death to those not in compliance. Presently our Islamic (legal) population is well under 2 % I presume . If we ever reach double digits all Hell will break loose.

Councilman said:

As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news it's too late to stop Muslim influence in Europe or North America.

The spread of members of this cult of hate and repression are set to dominate the world if the spread of of the cult is not stopped and very soon.

Only a cult teaches a reward for the murder of innocent people and subjugates and represses woman.

Until the west has guts enough to tell the truth about this cult the war on terror and the spread of the cult will continue.

I don't see the wearing of the Burka as a threat but the teachings most certainly are a threat to Governments and anyone who will not submit to the cult.

Click to expand...

So you're not really that concerned with the supposed imposition on women's rights that the burqa entails, you just don't like Muslims.

texmaster said:

Have you even seen a burka? Doesn't sound like it to make such a ridiculous comparison to other religious symbols.

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The only difference between a burqa and any other religion's traditional garb is the niqab, which it doesn't sound like this legislation deals with at all.

RightinNYC said:

The only difference between a burqa and any other religion's traditional garb is the niqab, which it doesn't sound like this legislation deals with at all.

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A niqab is actually part of a burqa, and the picture you showed is not a burqa at all.

A burqa covers a woman from head to foot, and only included slits for the eyes. It does not reveal the face.

Gardener said:

A niqab is actually part of a burqa, and the picture you showed is not a burqa at all.

A burqa covers a woman from head to foot, and only included slits for the eyes. It does not reveal the face.

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My apologies, that's what I was trying to say.

Add a niqab to any of the traditional forms of dress in that picture and you have what is in all material respects a burqa. The point is that nobody objects to the outfits of nuns or orthodox jewish women, so the only real issue to complain about here is the niqab.

texmaster said:

So now its hateful to oppose one culture entering another country and trying to force it to conform to its culture.

I don't understand the opinions of people like you either.

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My point is that opposition to the burqa is not necessarily intended as intolerance to a religion.

as opposed to this;

As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news it's too late to stop Muslim influence in Europe or North America.

The spread of members of this cult of hate and repression are set to dominate the world if the spread of of the cult is not stopped and very soon.

Only a cult teaches a reward for the murder of innocent people and subjugates and represses woman.

Until the west has guts enough to tell the truth about this cult the war on terror and the spread of the cult will continue.

I don't see the wearing of the Burka as a threat but the teachings most certainly are a threat to Governments and anyone who will not submit to the cult.

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which clearly is.

Ikari said:

I think the burka is stupid, but so is trying to ban it.

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That's the easiest answer.

texmaster said:

So now its hateful to oppose one culture entering another country and trying to force it to conform to its culture.

I don't understand the opinions of people like you either.

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Now take what you just said and pretend you are a Native American in the 1600-1900s. :doh

Or any place in the western world actually. You Christians really are blind to your hypocrisy.

The reason for the variety of Islamic garb is that different eras in history and areas of practice have different standards. The garb has gone through a lot of change and a lot of variations over time - so its become complicated.

The specific names for the attire or parts of the attire differ depending on where someone is and what influences their attire and so forth.

I see no one complaining about Middle Eastern men wearing their traditional clothing including body-garb and head dresses, as well. This purely focuses on females clothing.

That lean is interesting - could be easily construed to be equally as sexist as opponents claim the required clothing in question is.

When it comes to women and women rights the overall focus and goal is to give women a CHOICE - remove the requirements.
If someone WANTS to wear their burqa, they should be allowed to - if they don't want to then they shouldn't have to.

Now, in the US a ban like this would be unconstitutional because it affects ONE religion or culture over another - leaving me to feel that hte supporters of the ban are hypocrites - hiding behind a constitution that they don't truly believe in.

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

Is freedom of speech lost on fundy Christians? What percent of our Christian population is fundamentalist? So let's not get too carried away with "islam treats women badly".

Councilman said:

As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news it's too late to stop Muslim influence in Europe or North America.

The spread of members of this cult of hate and repression are set to dominate the world if the spread of of the cult is not stopped and very soon.

Only a cult teaches a reward for the murder of innocent people and subjugates and represses woman.

Until the west has guts enough to tell the truth about this cult the war on terror and the spread of the cult will continue.

I don't see the wearing of the Burka as a threat but the teachings most certainly are a threat to Governments and anyone who will not submit to the cult.

Muslim Demographics Video

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I have no problem with Muslim women wearing burka's. If they want to abide by some interpretation of a closet homosexual who has a problem with the female body then that is their business. However when they want an ID or driver's license, to testify in court(because we believe in the right to face one's accuser in court and to be able to judge through body language if the person is being truthful on the stand) or to perhaps enter certain buildings(banks,public offices or some other place a criminal might take advantage of being concealed) then that burka comes off. If there is some criminal or terrorist on the loose then authorities can simply ask the person wearing the burka to reveal themselves. .

NoJingoLingo said:

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

Is freedom of speech lost on fundy Christians? What percent of our Christian population is fundamentalist? So let's not get too carried away with "islam treats women badly".

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The only way that anything in this post would even begin to make sense would be if Christians refused to let women speak in church or teach in school. Since that's obviously not the case, I can't fathom what you're getting at or how it's remotely on-topic.

RightinNYC said:

The only way that anything in this post would even begin to make sense would be if Christians refused to let women speak in church or teach in school. Since that's obviously not the case, I can't fathom what you're getting at or how it's remotely on-topic.

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Ok - Christians don't make the rules for school, for one thing. Government, thankfully, has its hand in that - however, some Churches do govern their own private schools and all are subject to regulations and rules which wouldn't be permissible within the public school system.

On your second point - in some churches women are not allowed to be ministers or teach classes - like the Apostolic Protestants, for one example.

American said:

In the US we do have an opposing force on the rise. Hispanics are Catholics, and their numbers are growing. Nevertheless, the first amendment is the shield against potential Islamic tyranny.

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When the Left is doing everything it can to destroy the Second Amendment?

Don't look to the First for protection if the people needed to defend the First don't have guns to back them up.

What's going ot happen is that when the muslims get electoral majorities in those nations they're going to cite the Burqa Ban as precedent and ban halter-tops, bikinis, shorts, short skirts, and bared heads on all women in the nations they've invaded.

Also, those foolish European countries are failing to heed Franklin's dictum that those who give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither.

The correct thing to do is make sure that all businesses have the freedom to exclude all persons not conforming to whatever dress code the business chooses to impose. If Bob's First National Bank of France decides that it won't allow burqa-people onto it's premises, then burqa-people can't do business at the bank. Bob doesn't have to give a reason.

If Harold's Fruit and Vegetable Emporium doesn't want burqa-people in his shop, then burqa-people have to shop elsewhere.

The problem comes when the government owned transportation services want to eliminate burqa-people. THAT is wrongful discrimination. Too bad Europe abandoned the free market.