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Is it fair that American taxpayers...

It it fair American taxpayers must work for Israel, Palestine and Saudi Arabia?

  • It is fair.

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • It is not fair.

    Votes: 6 50.0%

  • God wills it!

    Votes: 4 33.3%
  • Total voters
    12
A

AndrewC

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Is it fair that American taxpayers must work part of the year for Israel, Palestine and the terrorist state of Saudi Arabia?

What do we get in return besides grief?
 
I don't work and never have worked for either of those countries so I don't understand your question???
 
Gibberish said:
I don't work and never have worked for either of those countries so I don't understand your question???
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Are you an American taxpayer? If you are then you work part of the year for these people. Welcome to slavery.
 
AndrewC said:
What do we get in return besides grief?
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We get to indulge ourselves in very simplistic political observations disguised as polls among other things
 
Gardener said:
We get to indulge ourselves in very simplistic political observations disguised as polls among other things
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So we cannot have freedom without supporting these people? Seems counterintuitive to me.
 
We don't live in a vacuum. We have to spend money in the interest of national security.

Even when we give to starving countries. They become easy victims of takeover by tyrants and dictators if they are starving.
 
If our freedom relies on the world being nice and doing what we want. We are screwed.
 
sazerac said:
We don't live in a vacuum. We have to spend money in the interest of national security.

Even when we give to starving countries. They become easy victims of takeover by tyrants and dictators if they are starving.
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So where is the proof that giving money to these nations has actually benefited the United States. Will you use the same rational as Obama. It would be worse if we didn't act. Come on. We've been involved in this region for a long time. What has changed?

Helping others in need is all fine and good. Americans, as individuals, do this every day. This political crap in the middle east is neither humanitarian nor necessary. As far as "national security" goes. I ask which nation and who's security? I tell ya we are the biggest suckers in the world. Duped into paying for every conflict or crisis.
 
AndrewC said:
Is it fair that American taxpayers must work part of the year for Israel, Palestine and the terrorist state of Saudi Arabia?

What do we get in return besides grief?
Click to expand...

I do not approve of us giving aid to any of those countries, but I take part in the election process to help pick our leaders. In that way, it is partly my fault, as well as every one elses.
 
If you think we should not be involved with these countries, run for office or help in a campaigne for a candidate who shares your view. Push for policy changes.
 
AndrewC said:
So where is the proof that giving money to these nations has actually benefited the United States. Will you use the same rational as Obama. It would be worse if we didn't act. Come on. We've been involved in this region for a long time. What has changed?

Helping others in need is all fine and good. Americans, as individuals, do this every day. This political crap in the middle east is neither humanitarian nor necessary. As far as "national security" goes. I ask which nation and who's security? I tell ya we are the biggest suckers in the world. Duped into paying for every conflict or crisis.
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Where do you think is the most likely place for a nuclear bomb to get launched from? And how much would that cost everybody? It's a wonder it hasn't happened already.
 
AndrewC said:
Is it fair that American taxpayers must work part of the year for Israel, Palestine and the terrorist state of Saudi Arabia?

What do we get in return besides grief?
Click to expand...
What do you propose as an alternative ?
That is, if what you say is true....which I doubt..
So Saudi Arabia spews a bin Laden; we generate a Tim McVey(whatever); does this make America a terrorist state ???
Arabia is not a terrorist nation any more than we are.....
There are many world and national problems, drawing into a shell and isolating oneself does not work....I guessing at your agenda...
BTW, some of it I may agree with...
 
sazerac said:
Where do you think is the most likely place for a nuclear bomb to get launched from? And how much would that cost everybody? It's a wonder it hasn't happened already.
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Heh, I don't know. Israel, India, Pakistan, Iran, North Korea, Russia, China, United States. Take your pick. You cannot build a perfect world by force or with cash. You cannot fight everyone and everything that might potentially threaten you. Life has risk. These games we play in the middle east have risk too. Americans are paying the price for that risk everyday.
 
It is important to note that alot of this money is used to fund programs for us a good example of this is the large amounts of money that we give to Saudi Arabia and Israel for anti-terrorism activities.

But since both of those nations are developed, we shouldn't be giving them any money with a blank check.


But when it comes to Palestine, we need to gain their favor and try to develope their country with aid, at least untill they get their own state...
 
earthworm said:
What do you propose as an alternative ?
That is, if what you say is true....which I doubt..
So Saudi Arabia spews a bin Laden; we generate a Tim McVey(whatever); does this make America a terrorist state ???
Arabia is not a terrorist nation any more than we are.....
There are many world and national problems, drawing into a shell and isolating oneself does not work....I guessing at your agenda...
BTW, some of it I may agree with...
Click to expand...

My alternative is Americans don't pay for nor fight other people's battles. If any of these nations or people within these nations attacks America. We respond. What we don't do is support forty years of conflict. What we don't do is play god in their politics. It is asinine to think that the President of the United States can solve the Israel/Palestine issue. It is ridiculous for the American people to continue to fund the stalemate.

Certain battles and wars are unavoidable. However maintaining the status quo with American money and force. Is unsustainable and counterproductive to our own prosperity. Every nation on this earth has the same rights as we do. To decide their fate. To solve their own problems and build a future for themselves.
 
sazerac said:
We don't live in a vacuum. We have to spend money in the interest of national security.
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You mean on atomic bombs, better airplanes, faster ships, effective missile defense system, orbiting weapons platforms, lunar missile silos, and assassins to kill specific people when they get uppity. Paying bribes isn't a good way to prepare the national defense.


sazerac said:
Even when we give to starving countries. They become easy victims of takeover by tyrants and dictators if they are starving.
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So you're saying the United States is starving?
 
The only aid we should give to other countries is free trade with them and a path to citizenship here.

(Yes I am for a non-interventionist foreign policy.)
 
AndrewC said:
Is it fair that American taxpayers must work part of the year for Israel, Palestine and the terrorist state of Saudi Arabia?

What do we get in return besides grief?
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I vote only for Israel! All western countries should support Israel, not "Palestine" or biggest exporter of Wahhabism Saudi Arabia. We don't may give Israel to arabs as gift!

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source:O.G.J. HP - Hauptindex
 
AndrewC said:
Heh, I don't know. Israel, India, Pakistan, Iran, North Korea, Russia, China, United States. Take your pick. You cannot build a perfect world by force or with cash. You cannot fight everyone and everything that might potentially threaten you. Life has risk. These games we play in the middle east have risk too. Americans are paying the price for that risk everyday.
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When crazies have nuclear weapons there is nothing "potential." They will certainly use them. So we make a good effort.
 
AndrewC said:
Is it fair that American taxpayers must work part of the year for Israel, Palestine and the terrorist state of Saudi Arabia?

What do we get in return besides grief?
Click to expand...

I think no nation should receive foreign aid regardless if they are our allies or supply us with oil or what ever, especially when we are in debt. When it comes to American tax dollars **** the rest of the world. The American government IE the tax payer's servants should be using our money for basic needs. Welfare to other countries is not basic needs.
 
Lachean said:
The only aid we should give to other countries is free trade with them and a path to citizenship here.

(Yes I am for a non-interventionist foreign policy.)
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While in principle I'd agree with you, in reality I cannot.

For instance, a country with nuclear weapons that is fighting a insurgency that is allied with our most dire enemies should get military aid. Having that insurgency gain access to those nuclear weapons is a clear and present danger we cannot allow.
 
AndrewC said:
This political crap in the middle east is neither humanitarian nor necessary.
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That depends on your definition of "necessary."

Is keeping oil at a stable, reliable price necessary? I'd say so. Is keeping US friendly regimes in the area necessary? I'd say so in the context of oil.

As far as "national security" goes. I ask which nation and who's security? I tell ya we are the biggest suckers in the world. Duped into paying for every conflict or crisis.
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Tell me, what do you think would happen if secular and US friendly regimes in the Middle East were replaced with religious fanatics and anti-US regimes?

There's a damn good reason to get off oil.
 
AndrewC said:
My alternative is Americans don't pay for nor fight other people's battles. If any of these nations or people within these nations attacks America. We respond. What we don't do is support forty years of conflict. What we don't do is play god in their politics. It is asinine to think that the President of the United States can solve the Israel/Palestine issue. It is ridiculous for the American people to continue to fund the stalemate.

Certain battles and wars are unavoidable. However maintaining the status quo with American money and force. Is unsustainable and counterproductive to our own prosperity. Every nation on this earth has the same rights as we do. To decide their fate. To solve their own problems and build a future for themselves.
Click to expand...

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I would rather spend money to see a stable ME, than not and see American boys and girls die in some stupid war that could have been prevented. Your position shows absolutely no foresight at all.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I would rather spend money to see a stable ME, than not and see American boys and girls die in some stupid war that could have been prevented. Your position shows absolutely no foresight at all.
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The rub there, as Wessexman and I have discussed, is when and where to apply cure and how much? There's a Goldilocks zone where one reduces the problem and it's surrounded by either having no effect or making it worse. As history shows, we rarely have hit that zone.
 
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