View Poll Results: Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

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  • It's wrong and unnatural

    22 7.94%
  • It's not wrong, just unnatural

    16 5.78%
  • It's neither wrong nor unnatural

    107 38.63%
  • Don't know/care

    16 5.78%
  • Punish/restrict Christians for being against it

    12 4.33%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

  1. #781
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Not again true. My numbers go to support "To promote the health of the population" if we go by my numbers and the resulting AIDS info, I am absolutly correct.
    Exactly how is allowing same sex couples to marry going to increase the number of people with AIDs?

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Exactly how is allowing same sex couples to marry going to increase the number of people with AIDs?
    married people **** more, duh!

    oh wait...
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Sorry, let me re-post it for you:
    ================================================== =================
    You’re making the same mistake that CaptainCourtesy made. You’re trying to close this discussion down once and for all by using a dictionary. “Existing in, or formed by nature”. That’s apparently good enough for you. And you state with finality that “By that definition it is clear that homosexuality is natural”. Case closed. Begone ramfel.

    When a straight couple has sex, generally speaking, a baby is eventually born. The female is designed to produce an egg, and the male is designed to fertilize it. They complement each other. That kind of sex is “natural”. This birthing ability means that the primary purpose of sex is to produce a child. You can use sex for other purposes (to bond, show love, have fun, and so on) but the first and most important responsibility is to make a child.

    The definition “Existing in, or formed by nature” is too broad. You can’t take that definition and use it to prove that homosexuality is natural. There are other considerations.

    It’s a fact that two gay men do not sexually complement each other. Each man can fertilize an egg, but neither man is producing that egg. All Heterosexual sex doesn’t always create babies, because straight couples don’t always want babies. But heterosexual couples “at least have the potential” to make babies, if they want to. They have nature on their side. Their sex, even if they don’t want babies, is natural because of this potential ability. Gay couples don’t have this potential.

    The facts are clear. You simply can’t prove that gay sex is natural, dictionary, or no dictionary.
    ================================================== ===============================

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Oh, I see.

    That's the reason gays are so anxious to prove that gay sex is natural. If proven (unlikely) then they can claim the right to SSM.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Sorry, let me re-post it for you:
    ================================================== =================
    You’re making the same mistake that CaptainCourtesy made. You’re trying to close this discussion down once and for all by using a dictionary. “Existing in, or formed by nature”. That’s apparently good enough for you. And you state with finality that “By that definition it is clear that homosexuality is natural”. Case closed. Begone ramfel.

    When a straight couple has sex, generally speaking, a baby is eventually born. The female is designed to produce an egg, and the male is designed to fertilize it. They complement each other. That kind of sex is “natural”. This birthing ability means that the primary purpose of sex is to produce a child. You can use sex for other purposes (to bond, show love, have fun, and so on) but the first and most important responsibility is to make a child.

    The definition “Existing in, or formed by nature” is too broad. You can’t take that definition and use it to prove that homosexuality is natural. There are other considerations.

    It’s a fact that two gay men do not sexually complement each other. Each man can fertilize an egg, but neither man is producing that egg. All Heterosexual sex doesn’t always create babies, because straight couples don’t always want babies. But heterosexual couples “at least have the potential” to make babies, if they want to. They have nature on their side. Their sex, even if they don’t want babies, is natural because of this potential ability. Gay couples don’t have this potential.

    The facts are clear. You simply can’t prove that gay sex is natural, dictionary, or no dictionary.
    ================================================== ===============================
    Translation: I'm unwilling to accept that gay sex is natural, dictionary or no dictionary.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Oh, I see.

    That's the reason gays are so anxious to prove that gay sex is natural. If proven (unlikely) then they can claim the right to SSM.
    Actually, whether gay sex is natural or unnatural is irrelevant to the SSM argument (or at least it should be).
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Oh, I see.

    That's the reason gays are so anxious to prove that gay sex is natural. If proven (unlikely) then they can claim the right to SSM.
    Again: Who are you to deny them that right? Why do you even care where another guy sticks his penis? It's not like it affects your marriage (assuming you're married). Do you think you or your wife are suddenly going to be possessed to go out and marry someone of the same sex if it becomes legal?
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Oh, I see.

    That's the reason gays are so anxious to prove that gay sex is natural. If proven (unlikely) then they can claim the right to SSM.
    Whether gay sex is natural depends on the definition used. I cannot think of any definition of the word natural that mac did not come up with that would exclude gay sex. Gay sex is found in nature. That makes it natural by all the applicable dictionary definitions.

    However, gay sex being natural has nothing to do with whether SSM should be legal. Legally there are no good arguments against SSM being married, and a prohibition on it is very likely unconstitutional, and in fact has been ruled to be so(ruling on hold waiting for appeal currently).
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Sorry, let me re-post it for you:
    ================================================== =================
    You’re making the same mistake that CaptainCourtesy made. You’re trying to close this discussion down once and for all by using a dictionary. “Existing in, or formed by nature”. That’s apparently good enough for you. And you state with finality that “By that definition it is clear that homosexuality is natural”. Case closed. Begone ramfel.

    When a straight couple has sex, generally speaking, a baby is eventually born. The female is designed to produce an egg, and the male is designed to fertilize it. They complement each other. That kind of sex is “natural”. This birthing ability means that the primary purpose of sex is to produce a child. You can use sex for other purposes (to bond, show love, have fun, and so on) but the first and most important responsibility is to make a child.

    The definition “Existing in, or formed by nature” is too broad. You can’t take that definition and use it to prove that homosexuality is natural. There are other considerations.

    It’s a fact that two gay men do not sexually complement each other. Each man can fertilize an egg, but neither man is producing that egg. All Heterosexual sex doesn’t always create babies, because straight couples don’t always want babies. But heterosexual couples “at least have the potential” to make babies, if they want to. They have nature on their side. Their sex, even if they don’t want babies, is natural because of this potential ability. Gay couples don’t have this potential.

    The facts are clear. You simply can’t prove that gay sex is natural, dictionary, or no dictionary.
    ================================================== ===============================
    I get it. You are a teleolgist. You believe that everything is designed to meet a certain purpose.

    So do you also condemn people who masturbate? Given that the hand is not a reproductive organ and masturbation cannot result in procreation it must also be an "unnatural" act as well. About 90% of people masturbate so would you argue they all act in an unnatural fashion?

    How about oral sex? Would it also be unnatural? The mouth is not a reproductive organ, so I imagine you view heterosexuals who engage in oral sex with the same stringent mind set you have towards gays since that act can't lead to procreation.

    How about celibacy? Our sexual organs were meant to reproduce. Males are constantly making sperm and women have their monthly cycle, so it would seem that we should be having sex and it is unnatural not to do so. Is celibacy unnatural?

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Sorry, let me re-post it for you:
    ================================================== =================
    You’re making the same mistake that CaptainCourtesy made. You’re trying to close this discussion down once and for all by using a dictionary. “Existing in, or formed by nature”. That’s apparently good enough for you. And you state with finality that “By that definition it is clear that homosexuality is natural”. Case closed. Begone ramfel.

    When a straight couple has sex, generally speaking, a baby is eventually born. The female is designed to produce an egg, and the male is designed to fertilize it. They complement each other. That kind of sex is “natural”. This birthing ability means that the primary purpose of sex is to produce a child. You can use sex for other purposes (to bond, show love, have fun, and so on) but the first and most important responsibility is to make a child.

    The definition “Existing in, or formed by nature” is too broad. You can’t take that definition and use it to prove that homosexuality is natural. There are other considerations.

    It’s a fact that two gay men do not sexually complement each other. Each man can fertilize an egg, but neither man is producing that egg. All Heterosexual sex doesn’t always create babies, because straight couples don’t always want babies. But heterosexual couples “at least have the potential” to make babies, if they want to. They have nature on their side. Their sex, even if they don’t want babies, is natural because of this potential ability. Gay couples don’t have this potential.

    The facts are clear. You simply can’t prove that gay sex is natural, dictionary, or no dictionary.
    ================================================== ===============================
    1) the ability to have a child is not a requirement to be married

    2) nature does not "design" anything.

    3) most acts of heterosexual sex do not produce a child

    4) gay people can, and with some frequency do, have children

    5) many gays also want to adopt, and that number is growing

    6) in addition to adoption, there are a number of ways gay people can have children.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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