View Poll Results: Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

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277. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's wrong and unnatural

    22 7.94%
  • It's not wrong, just unnatural

    16 5.78%
  • It's neither wrong nor unnatural

    107 38.63%
  • Don't know/care

    16 5.78%
  • Punish/restrict Christians for being against it

    12 4.33%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

  1. #771
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I already demonstrated that one of the most quoted anti-gay passages in the Bible is not anti-gay at all. I suppose this means that you will have to rethink all of your arguments... unless you want to hold onto a position that does not agree with what God had written.

    Yup. Already done. Let's see if you listen to the word of God, or if you hold onto your un-Godlike position because of your bias. I BET I know which direction you go.

    Go ahead and prove this.

    Excellent. Now see... that wasn't so hard. Homosexuality exists in nature. You lose.

    Exist in nature. Homosexuality exists in nature. Like I said... you lose.

    Sure. One can be one gender and be either sexual orientation. One is not dependent on the other. Simple concept.

    Natural sex. Hmmm... since we know, from your definition, that natural is something that exists in nature, we therefore know that homosexual sex (whatever that is) is natural. We, therefore, know that not all natural sex (sex that exists in nature) creates babies. This very simple logic. Also, if it exists in nature, it cannot be "unnatural sex" by the definition you provided. Like I said. You lose.

    You had no point. That's the point. I refuted it quite completely as there was nothing logical about it.
    Huhhhh, what if one doesn't believe "that the bible is divinely inspired" AS I DO.

    Why can't this topic be held to human standards? Nobody in the forum is supernatural.

    Bringing in religious beliefs is like me playing a Ouija Board and claiming that that is some a root source of universal truths and moral standards.

    In my opinion, there is no proof that any scripture, regarding any topic it address, or is of a supernatural origin.

    The bible's content is basically stories that are used as a type of instrument used to create some moral foundation. I suggest that had there been no bible or related religions...humanity would have created very sound moral standards and laws.

    As the famous Dennis Hopper would say, "Keep it real, man!"

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    You’re making the same mistake that CaptainCourtesy made. You’re trying to close this discussion down once and for all by using a dictionary. “Existing in, or formed by nature”. That’s apparently good enough for you. And you state with finality that “By that definition it is clear that homosexuality is natural”. Case closed. Begone ramfel.

    When a straight couple has sex, generally speaking, a baby is eventually born. The female is designed to produce an egg, and the male is designed to fertilize it. They complement each other. That kind of sex is “natural”. This birthing ability means that the primary purpose of sex is to produce a child. You can use sex for other purposes (to bond, show love, have fun, and so on) but the first and most important responsibility is to make a child.

    The definition “Existing in, or formed by nature” is too broad. You can’t take that definition and use it to prove that homosexuality is natural. There are other considerations.

    It’s a fact that two gay men do not sexually complement each other. Each man can fertilize an egg, but neither man is producing that egg. All Heterosexual sex doesn’t always create babies, because straight couples don’t always want babies. But heterosexual couples “at least have the potential” to make babies, if they want to. They have nature on their side. Their sex, even if they don’t want babies, is natural because of this potential ability. Gay couples don’t have this potential.

    The facts are clear. You simply can’t prove that gay sex is natural, dictionary, or no dictionary.
    Not all opposite sex couples can produce babies either. In fact, there are even some cases where opposite sex couples cannot procreate with each other just because of their baby-making parts not being combatible with each other (i.e. low motility sperm of husband and hostile uterine environment of wife creates the problem, although neither would technically be considered infertile given more suitable partners). Others had there chance to have children, and may have actually taken advantage of this, but they are now too old to procreate.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Is this English? I can't get past all the &ldquo: bits.
    I can read it just fine.
    We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, 1939

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    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not all opposite sex couples can produce babies either. In fact, there are even some cases where opposite sex couples cannot procreate with each other just because of their baby-making parts not being combatible with each other (i.e. low motility sperm of husband and hostile uterine environment of wife creates the problem, although neither would technically be considered infertile given more suitable partners). Others had there chance to have children, and may have actually taken advantage of this, but they are now too old to procreate.
    It's true that some straight couples don't, or can't procreate. But when two opposite sex partners mate with the intent to make a baby, the odds are in their favor because their copulation is natural. When two same sex partners do it, there is NO CHANCE of making a baby because their copulation is unnatural.

    It's the fact that opposite sex partners have the right equipment that makes it "natural".

    The truth is inescapable.
    We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, 1939

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    If people don't support gay marriage, that's totally fine. I'm completely in favor of their right to not get one. Now why don't all you guys stay out of everyone else's business, just like we stay out of yours? Aren't you the ones always talking about freedom and stuff?
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

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    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    If people don't support gay marriage, that's totally fine. I'm completely in favor of their right to not get one. Now why don't all you guys stay out of everyone else's business, just like we stay out of yours? Aren't you the ones always talking about freedom and stuff?
    Their right not to get one? I don't understand.
    We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, 1939

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Their right not to get one? I don't understand.
    No one is forcing you to get a SSM, but your forcing every LGBT person to not even have the option to get one.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    It's true that some straight couples don't, or can't procreate. But when two opposite sex partners mate with the intent to make a baby, the odds are in their favor because their copulation is natural. When two same sex partners do it, there is NO CHANCE of making a baby because their copulation is unnatural.

    It's the fact that opposite sex partners have the right equipment that makes it "natural".

    The truth is inescapable.
    You are confusing an act with an orientation. Just thought I would mention it before CC did.

    By the way, I am a child of a gay person. ~1/3 of all lesbians have given birth, and about 1/4 of gay men have fathered children.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    You’re making the same mistake that CaptainCourtesy made. You’re trying to close this discussion down once and for all by using a dictionary. “Existing in, or formed by nature”. That’s apparently good enough for you. And you state with finality that “By that definition it is clear that homosexuality is natural”. Case closed. Begone ramfel.

    When a straight couple has sex, generally speaking, a baby is eventually born. The female is designed to produce an egg, and the male is designed to fertilize it. They complement each other. That kind of sex is “natural”. This birthing ability means that the primary purpose of sex is to produce a child. You can use sex for other purposes (to bond, show love, have fun, and so on) but the first and most important responsibility is to make a child.

    The definition “Existing in, or formed by nature” is too broad. You can’t take that definition and use it to prove that homosexuality is natural. There are other considerations.

    It’s a fact that two gay men do not sexually complement each other. Each man can fertilize an egg, but neither man is producing that egg. All Heterosexual sex doesn’t always create babies, because straight couples don’t always want babies. But heterosexual couples “at least have the potential” to make babies, if they want to. They have nature on their side. Their sex, even if they don’t want babies, is natural because of this potential ability. Gay couples don’t have this potential.

    The facts are clear. You simply can’t prove that gay sex is natural, dictionary, or no dictionary.
    So Condoms are unnatural?

    Infertile people are unnatural?

    Birth Control is unnatural?

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The state speaks for the state. The reasons why the state sponsors marriage is: 1) To assist in the positive rearing of children; 2) To assist in creating a financially and interactively stable society and; 3) To promote the health of the population. All of these things are attained by both traditional marriage and SSM with no differences between them. This is why you are incorrect and why your numbers are irrelevant.
    Not again true. My numbers go to support "To promote the health of the population" if we go by my numbers and the resulting AIDS info, I am absolutly correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Nope. They are not.
    You did not look at the relatively high numbers with homosexual vs heterosexual did you? Then you just flat out say I am wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    When you just stick to your inaccuracies no matter what is said, there is really little else to say other that to repeat that you are wrong... which you are.
    And yet the logical numbers who have no wrong or right say I am stating my position accurately and you are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Problem is you have no facts on this issue. Name NAMES, BD. You asked, so I said to do it.
    Do I have to name BDboop? Criticalthought? Redress? I mean please man, be real.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I CONSTANTLY repost the information that I have posted in the past. I am asking for clarification. You don't want to give it... fine. This particular issue is done.
    I don't remember you ever posting it, I could be wrong. I have on the other hand seen you mention it MANY times. So I figure you are not willing to exchange the same courtesy, no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    So? It's what I observe.
    Yet what I observe is dismissed out of hand? We have a word for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You quoted comments from the OT.. which is the Torah. I demonstrated what it's ACCURATE interpretation is.
    You quoted what AN interpretation is as you yourself said "Probably" and then post nothing about any evidence for "prostitution," none.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It was originally written in ancient Hebrew, so THOSE words are what are accurate translations/interpretations. You interpretted it wrong. I have now corrected that.
    No I did not because homosexual sex was still outlawed and it said nothing about it being prostitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The NT is irrelevant to me, but YOU quoted passages from the OT ONLY in order to justify your position.
    As an example of an accurate translation AND it backing up the NT which it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I have now corrected those interoretations... so now you are moving the goal posts and making the NT your central argument.
    The NT was always part of my argument???? You took one part out of one post and then got it wrong and still could not prove homosexual sex is not a sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Tell us, BD... why would you quote Leviticus and then, when shown you are wrong, THEN switch to the NT? Seems like you couldn't prove your position the way you thought, so you had to switch gears.
    #1 I was not showen wrong.
    #2 It was part of a larger discussion that you did not take part in.
    #3 The translation I put forward is accurate and you have yet to show were it "probably" says they only meant "prostitution."

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I will ask again. In this statement "If you call yourself a Christian, you should know the holy book your religion is based on", are you referring to people in general?
    Well lets see since you seem to all of a sudden have forgotten English...

    "If you call yourself a Christian, you should know the holy book your religion is based on."

    If: 1. in case that; granting or supposing that; on condition that: Sing if you want to.

    OK so we are setting that the condition is of someone calling themselves a Christian. They should know the holy book of said religion.

    You are starting to sound like Bill Clinton on the stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    NT. Has nothing to do wth my religious beliefs and nothing to do with what you originally quoted.
    It has everything to do with it as I pointed out in the statements in red you ignored. When you jump into the middle of a conversation it is amazing how much you miss.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This passage does not indicate the gender of one's wife.
    You have got to be kidding me. Please point out where in the Bible it EVER used the term "wife" for anything other than a female?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Again. The NT has nothing to do with my religion and nothing to do with the your original quotes that you made from Leviticus. How are you going to justify your position on homosexuality and religion, BD, now that I have take Leviticus away from you?
    You have not taken anything away from me. Anal sex is a sin. Anal sex is a large part of homosexuality. So please explain what you have taken away again? Or in context did you end up backing up my point?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, you have been shown that your interpretations of your original quotes were completely false.
    They are completely the same. You are trying to say because they said only anal sex, somehow this does not apply. Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And again, the NT is not relevant to the beginings of this discussion. You quoted Leviticus. I showed the correct interpretations.
    So you still got nothing. I got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Already demonstrated.
    Ahh no.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    NOT global and only individual and you cannot ignore that without being intellectually dishonest.
    Oh I get it. If your "observations" are not "global" it's OK. If mine are it's not.

    No problem.

    it's what I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    So, as I have shown, religious tenets are NOT clear. MY religion accepts homosexuality based on accurate intepretations of Leviticus. Now, if you want to go along with what the NT says, that is YOUR religion, and certainly is you right to do so. It's your belief and there is no argument around that. But basing it on Leviticus? Can't do that.

    Now, if you'd like, I can show you why the Christian church chose to interpret/translate Leviticus in the way that it did, and why, even with the information that I posted, Christianity has not and probably will not print the accurate translations.
    Leviticus does not change. I have shown this with your help. I don't need to do anything else.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-02-11 at 12:48 AM.
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