View Poll Results: Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

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  • It's wrong and unnatural

    22 7.94%
  • It's not wrong, just unnatural

    16 5.78%
  • It's neither wrong nor unnatural

    107 38.63%
  • Don't know/care

    16 5.78%
  • Punish/restrict Christians for being against it

    12 4.33%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

  1. #691
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    True, but neither are the different genders in "subspecies" nor are people of differing sexualities in "subspecies".

    I will agree that there are inherent differences in men and women, more probably than between a man of one race and a man of a different race, but that doesn't mean the differences are so vast that there being attracted to people of a certain race is much different than being attracted to people of a certain gender. Especially when there is no way a person can know beyond a shadow of a doubt with an initial attraction that the other person will be able to procreate with them.

    (And I know your position on this, just trying to add to what I posted and your response seemed a good way to do it without having to edit my last post.)
    Personally, I think the interracial marriage comparison is useful up to a point - the point being that marriage, and social norms in general, are constantly evolving.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    How about those gay Texas cowboys on all of the states ranches? Wonder how they might be playing a role in the moral destruction of the great state of Texas? One good thing is all of these gay cowboys weren't influenced by the live stock that they tend everyday to convert from being gay to bestiality.

    Gotta watch for those thing. Ya know how easy it is for one sexual orientation to co-op unsuspecting members of another orientation to convert.

    Just saying... No other explanation for it.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Personally, I think the interracial marriage comparison is useful up to a point - the point being that marriage, and social norms in general, are constantly evolving.
    That I agree with...if American society decides that is wishes to allow SSM, then it will regardless of any currently existing barrier.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That I agree with...if American society decides that is wishes to allow SSM, then it will regardless of any currently existing barrier.
    It wasn't society that decided interracial marriage was okay though, it was the SCOTUS. And it will probably be the SCOTUS that strikes down SSM bans as well.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Personally, I think the interracial marriage comparison is useful up to a point - the point being that marriage, and social norms in general, are constantly evolving.
    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That I agree with...if American society decides that is wishes to allow SSM, then it will regardless of any currently existing barrier.
    True. This is how society tends to operate. Once enough people agree that an issue needs to be changed, it does. Society is constantly evolving... we do not have the same social norms we had 1000 years ago... or even 100 years ago.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Personally, I think the interracial marriage comparison is useful up to a point - the point being that marriage, and social norms in general, are constantly evolving.
    True. And sometimes I go too far with it.

    I just can't see how people don't see that the arguments are the same and the only thing that is different about the relationships involved is the ability to procreate, which would be valid if we required procreation (ability and desire) of those opposite sex couples who wanted to get married.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It wasn't society that decided interracial marriage was okay though, it was the SCOTUS. And it will probably be the SCOTUS that strikes down SSM bans as well.
    Rogue, I think this is a very interesting discussion. I took a Law and Society class this past semester that discussed whether the legal institutions are an agent of social control, or of social change.

    I agree that on many social issues in the past few decades, SCOTUS has generally been ahead of the curve compared to the general public (for instance integration/desegregation, abortion, etc.)

    If it weren't for groups of vocal citizens and their supporters, such cases would never even reach the courts in the first place. I agree that some changes don't happen until society permits them to. However, changes that do happen without the support of the majority must at least have enough support to have a certain degree of impetus behind them.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 05-29-11 at 11:19 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Rogue, I think this is a very interesting discussion. I took a Law and Society class this past semester that discussed whether the legal institutions are an agent of social control, or of social change.

    I agree that on many social issues in the past few decades, SCOTUS has generally been ahead of the curve compared to the general public (for instance integration/desegregation, abortion, etc.)

    However, if it weren't for groups of vocal citizens and their supporters, such cases would never even reach the courts in the first place. I agree that some changes don't happen until society permits them to. However, changes that do happen must have enough support to have some degree of impetus behind them.
    I can see that.

    And I also believe that despite the clear violation of Equal Protection that SSM bans and DOMA are, that it wasn't likely to make it in the SCOTUS even a decade ago, despite having more support behind it then than interracial marriage had when it was repealed. Even now, it is very likely that a decision by the SCOTUS to strike down SSM bans and/or DOMA on the basis of Equal Protection is not going to be unanimous (unfortunately) and there is even the slight possibility that it won't happen with the first case or two to reach the SCOTUS. I just think that it is more likely to be done by the SCOTUS than our Congress, and especially more likely than trying to change each state's laws/constitutions one at a time, even with support for SSM being over 50% and growing.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Personally, I think the interracial marriage comparison is useful up to a point - the point being that marriage, and social norms in general, are constantly evolving.
    I agree but for people that aren't aware when it was first passed in California and then Nation wide it was NOT the norm or did the majority of people polled support it.

    Our elected officials were smart enough at the time to be ahead of the curve and actually look at the laws, freedoms and rights and decided to make the RIGHT choice which is what I believe will happen with Gay rights. It wont be long in my opinion.

    Cant remember the numbers so don't hold me to them but when Cali passed it I think 80+% didnt want it, when the nation passed it 70+% didn't want it and sadly until I believe sometimes in the late 90s, yes the 90s was the first time ever the majority of people approved of interracial marriage.
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    I agree but for people that aren't aware when it was first passed in California and then Nation wide it was NOT the norm or did the majority of people polled support it.

    Our elected officials were smart enough at the time to be ahead of the curve and actually look at the laws, freedoms and rights and decided to make the RIGHT choice which is what I believe will happen with Gay rights. It wont be long in my opinion.

    Cant remember the numbers so don't hold me to them but when Cali passed it I think 80+% didnt want it, when the nation passed it 70+% didn't want it and sadly until I believe sometimes in the late 90s, yes the 90s was the first time ever the majority of people approved of interracial marriage.
    I found it in another thread, sorry I was wrong about the LATE 90s it was 91

    "in 1948, about 90% of American Adults opposed interracial marriage when the Supreme Court of California legalized it, and California became the first state that allowed loving, committed interracial couples to marry.

    and then not until 1967(19 years later), about 72% were opposed to interracial marriage. This was the year when the U.S. Supreme Court was legalized interracial marriage everywhere in the U.S.

    and then not until 1991 (24 years later), those adults opposed to interracial marriage became a minority for the first time"


    I doubt it will take this long from now, excuse me for not knowing but when was the fist legal gay marriage, though anyone know?

    Anyway like I said hopefull our government moves forward and does the right thing again, thats what AMerica does, slowly but surely we will be equal, we right our wrongs and remove discrimination.
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

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