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Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

  • Total voters
    128
Blackdog said:
Jesus never got involved with the politics of Rome, ever. The Bible describes a system not for government, but our spiritual salvation. We are supposed to lead by example and treat everyone fairly without judging to the point of being hypocrites.

Fornication, adultery and incest etc are all moral sins in the Bible. So I can't understand why my fellow Christians are not speaking out on those as well. Should we not be striving for harsher divorce laws? What about people caught fornicating? Fact is we are to lead by example and not enforce religious law on the civilians of a secular nation. Even Jesus himself said "render unto Cesar."

Our laws (as in the U.S.) are supposed to give equal protection for all under the law. They are not equal right now. Homosexuals sin, but he who is without sin throw the first stone.
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Having belonged to a 'grace-based' church, I can't help wondering if all of this is the law He set us free from.
 
BDBoop said:
Having belonged to a 'grace-based' church, I can't help wondering if all of this is the law He set us free from.
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What is a grace-based church?
 
BDBoop said:
Having belonged to a 'grace-based' church, I can't help wondering if all of this is the law He set us free from.
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Unless you are Jewish or a noahide, the old law never applied to you anyway. The New Covenant is to free us from sin through his blood. This does not mean however we are not sinners and still need forgiveness.
 
The answer is immaterial because in the end it's a personal choice that has been drilled into the heads of so many that it's never going away until the Second Coming, then we'll know.

The Bible says it's a sin and therefore wrong. God created Adam and Eve and not two men. There are some fish who can change sex and reproduce but no other creature can that I know of.

Don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah, and why.

csp_hydrogen-bomb.jpg


Of course if you are a Godless heathen nothing is out of bounds not even the murder of babies. Of course the same people claim they are for human rights.
 
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CriticalThought said:
So why is this so threatening to you?

a_lgayadoption_0716.jpg


rainbowfams_story1.jpg
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Because it’s deceptive.

I see two seemingly normal families, the picture of health and happiness. This is the very stuff that propaganda and indoctrination is made from. What could be so threatening about these two pictures, with the fresh faces, the sun shining, the seemingly happy kids?

But hold on. That’s what makes these pictures so bad. These pictures are just as dangerous as “Heather Has Two Mommies” and “Daddy’s Roommate”, in that it seeks to normalize something unnatural. It’s like taking a criminal to trail, and dressing him up in a respectable outfit so that the jury will take pity on him. You’re trying to give gays an air of respectability. I think that trying to do that by showing this picture is a really sick thing to do.
 
RamFel said:
Because it’s deceptive.

I see two seemingly normal families, the picture of health and happiness. This is the very stuff that propaganda and indoctrination is made from. What could be so threatening about these two pictures, with the fresh faces, the sun shining, the seemingly happy kids?

But hold on. That’s what makes these pictures so bad. These pictures are just as dangerous as “Heather Has Two Mommies” and “Daddy’s Roommate”, in that it seeks to normalize something unnatural. It’s like taking a criminal to trail, and dressing him up in a respectable outfit so that the jury will take pity on him. You’re trying to give gays an air of respectability. I think that trying to do that by showing this picture is a really sick thing to do.
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The bolded portion of your statement shows ideology that is ignorant at best, hateful at worst. Homosexuals are just as respectable as anyone else. They work, care for their families, love their children and their partners, just like everyone else. And their children are not "seemingly happy." They are happy, because they love their parents and their parents' love them.

Your willingness to prejudge and condemn people you do not even know is profoundly troubling.
 
RamFel said:
Because it’s deceptive.

I see two seemingly normal families, the picture of health and happiness. This is the very stuff that propaganda and indoctrination is made from. What could be so threatening about these two pictures, with the fresh faces, the sun shining, the seemingly happy kids?

But hold on. That’s what makes these pictures so bad. These pictures are just as dangerous as “Heather Has Two Mommies” and “Daddy’s Roommate”, in that it seeks to normalize something unnatural. It’s like taking a criminal to trail, and dressing him up in a respectable outfit so that the jury will take pity on him. You’re trying to give gays an air of respectability. I think that trying to do that by showing this picture is a really sick thing to do.
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Circular logic is circular.
 
RamFel said:
Because it’s deceptive.

I see two seemingly normal families, the picture of health and happiness. This is the very stuff that propaganda and indoctrination is made from. What could be so threatening about these two pictures, with the fresh faces, the sun shining, the seemingly happy kids?

But hold on. That’s what makes these pictures so bad. These pictures are just as dangerous as “Heather Has Two Mommies” and “Daddy’s Roommate”, in that it seeks to normalize something unnatural. It’s like taking a criminal to trail, and dressing him up in a respectable outfit so that the jury will take pity on him. You’re trying to give gays an air of respectability. I think that trying to do that by showing this picture is a really sick thing to do.
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I'm sick because I posted two pictures of gay families? Okey dokes.

Normalizing what is "unnatural"? That is the crime that you seem to find unforgivable.

So would you consider in vitro fertilisation to be unnatural as well? That is the process by which egg cells are fertilised by sperm outside the body in a test tube. That seems to me to be incredibly unnatural by your definition. Would you argue that heterosexual couples who use that practice are just as perverse as gays? Would normalizing that practice in society for the few people who do it be as terrible as homosexuality?
 
RamFel said:
Because it’s deceptive.

I see two seemingly normal families, the picture of health and happiness. This is the very stuff that propaganda and indoctrination is made from. What could be so threatening about these two pictures, with the fresh faces, the sun shining, the seemingly happy kids?

But hold on. That’s what makes these pictures so bad. These pictures are just as dangerous as “Heather Has Two Mommies” and “Daddy’s Roommate”, in that it seeks to normalize something unnatural. It’s like taking a criminal to trail, and dressing him up in a respectable outfit so that the jury will take pity on him. You’re trying to give gays an air of respectability. I think that trying to do that by showing this picture is a really sick thing to do.
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You're a troll, right? Because if these are your true colors that are shining through, I have to say I am every bit as sickened by your thought processes as you claim to be by these pictures.
 
DiAnna said:
Your willingness to prejudge and condemn people you do not even know is profoundly troubling.
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Talking to this guy is making me feel like an ass for how I have perceived members like Goshin and spoken about Christianity on this forum. This is typical Aristotelian Philosophy of the natural moral law variety that is embraced by Christians but it lacks the respect for human dignity and equality that other Christians also hold as essential tenets of the religion. I think you have to converse with people like this individual to understand that every Christian is as unique in their religion as every human being is in their sexuality.
 
Councilman said:
The answer is immaterial because in the end it's a personal choice that has been drilled into the heads of so many that it's never going away until the Second Coming, then we'll know.

The Bible says it's a sin and therefore wrong. God created Adam and Eve and not two men. There are some fish who can change sex and reproduce but no other creature can that I know of.

Don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah, and why.

Of course if you are a Godless heathen nothing is out of bounds not even the murder of babies. Of course the same people claim they are for human rights.
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Right, so it makes perfect since that it's illegal, since all our laws come from the Bible. Oh wait, actually they specifically don't come from the Bible:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." - Treaty of Tripoli, art. 12
What was your argument again?
 
RamFel said:
Oh? Is it not true then that you hope one day, to be fully accepted, without reservation, by every one society, including children? To teach the kids that there is nothing wrong with gay relationships (a process that is already happening?) To be so open, that you can marry, and kiss in public, so that to anyone who would witness it, it would be so commonplace, that it would be no big deal?

Is that not true?
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I'm cool with all that. u mad?
 
disneydude said:
BTW....kids SHOULD know that there is nothing wrong with gay relationships. There was a time in this country where a lot of children were taught that inter-racial marriage is wrong (there probably still are a lot who are still taught that).....that blacks are second class citizens......that women should be subservient to men.....etc etc etc.
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Trust me, there are a lot of people who believe this now and do teach their children that interracial relationships are wrong.

In fact, my father was asked by his father in the 70s what color my mother was before he married her. 4 years ago, when my husband's stepfather told my husband's bio dad that we were getting married, the question of my own color came up. And I have met several people in the military, who are around my age, 30, who believe interracial relationships are wrong, even some who have no issue with being friends with people of a different race.

There is no way to legally stop people from holding personal prejudices, but we can and should prevent those prejudices from being part of our laws.
 
roguenuke said:
Trust me, there are a lot of people who believe this now and do teach their children that interracial relationships are wrong.

In fact, my father was asked by his father in the 70s what color my mother was before he married her. 4 years ago, when my husband's stepfather told my husband's bio dad that we were getting married, the question of my own color came up. And I have met several people in the military, who are around my age, 30, who believe interracial relationships are wrong, even some who have no issue with being friends with people of a different race.

There is no way to legally stop people from holding personal prejudices, but we can and should prevent those prejudices from being part of our laws.
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the belief that interracial marriage is wrong has largely disappeared, although it has morphed into a kind of subtle prejudice in which people justify their beliefs by saying "i'm worried bout the kids."
 
Blackdog said:
Bull****, no survey I have ever seen says anything like that. Please list a survey that says homosexual men by 50% or more prefer not to have anal sex.
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In 1992, a study conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that only 26% of men 18 to 59 and 20% of women 18 to 59 had engaged in heterosexual anal sex; a similar 2005 survey (also conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) found a rising incidence of anal sex relations in the American heterosexual population. The survey showed that 40% of men and 35% of women between 25 and 44 had engaged in heterosexual anal sex.[42] In terms of overall numbers of survey respondents, seven times as many women as gay men said that they engaged in anal intercourse, with this figure reflecting the larger heterosexual population size.[43] According to the National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior (NSSHB), although anal intercourse is reported by fewer women than other partnered sex behaviors, partnered women in the age groups between 18-49 are significantly more likely to report having anal sex in the past 90 days.[44]

In a 2007 report entitled Prevalence and Correlates of Heterosexual Anal and Oral Sex in Adolescents and Adults in the United States, published in the Journal of Infectious Disease, a national survey of Family Growth found that 34% men and 30% women reported ever participating in heterosexual anal sex. The percentage of participants reporting heterosexual anal sex was significantly higher among 20- to 24-year-olds and peaked among 30- to 34-year-olds.[45][46] Another survey in, 2008, focused on a much younger demographic of teenagers and young adults, aged 15–21. It found that 16% of 1350 surveyed had had this type of sex in the previous 3 months, with condoms being used 29% of the time.[47] However, given the subject matter, the survey hypothesized the prevalence was probably underestimated.

In 2009, Kimberly R. McBride published a clinical report in The Journal of Sex Research which stated that changing norms may affect the frequency of heterosexual anal sex behaviors and suggests that there is a role for the exotic in the sexual repertoires of some heterosexuals" "[F]or a certain number of heterosexuals, anal intercourse is pleasurable, exciting, and perhaps considered more intimate than vaginal sex...". McBride and her colleagues investigated the prevalence of non-intercourse anal sex behaviors among a sample of men (n=1,299) and women (n=1,919) compared to anal intercourse experience and found that 51% of men and 43% of women had participated in at least one act of oral–anal sex, manual–anal sex, or anal sex toy use.[45][48] McBride and Janssen found that the majority of men (n=631) and women (n=856) who reported heterosexual anal intercourse in the past 12 months were in exclusive, monogamous relationships: 69% and 73%, respectively.[45][48]

Figures for prevalence can vary amongst different demographics, regions, and nationalities. A 2001 French survey of five hundred female respondents concluded that a total of 29% had engaged in this practice, with one third of these confirming to have enjoyed the experience.[49] In contrast, in a 1999 South Korean survey of 586 women, 3.5% of respondents reported having had this type of sex.[50]

Figures for the prevalence of sexual behavior can also fluctuate over time. Edward O. Laumann's 1992 survey, reported in The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States, found that about 20% of heterosexuals had engaged in male-to-female anal sex. Sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, working in the 1940s, had found that number to be closer to 40% at the time. More recently, a researcher from the University of British Columbia in 2005 put the number of heterosexuals who have engaged in this practice at between 30% and 50%.[51] According to Columbia University's health website Go Ask Alice!: "Studies indicate that about 25 percent of heterosexual couples have had anal sex at least once, and 10 percent regularly have anal penetration."[52]
 
disneydude said:
In 1992, a study conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that only 26% of men 18 to 59 and 20% of women 18 to 59 had engaged in heterosexual anal sex; a similar 2005 survey (also conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) found a rising incidence of anal sex relations in the American heterosexual population. The survey showed that 40% of men and 35% of women between 25 and 44 had engaged in heterosexual anal sex.[42] In terms of overall numbers of survey respondents, seven times as many women as gay men said that they engaged in anal intercourse, with this figure reflecting the larger heterosexual population size.[43] According to the National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior (NSSHB), although anal intercourse is reported by fewer women than other partnered sex behaviors, partnered women in the age groups between 18-49 are significantly more likely to report having anal sex in the past 90 days.[44]

In a 2007 report entitled Prevalence and Correlates of Heterosexual Anal and Oral Sex in Adolescents and Adults in the United States, published in the Journal of Infectious Disease, a national survey of Family Growth found that 34% men and 30% women reported ever participating in heterosexual anal sex. The percentage of participants reporting heterosexual anal sex was significantly higher among 20- to 24-year-olds and peaked among 30- to 34-year-olds.[45][46] Another survey in, 2008, focused on a much younger demographic of teenagers and young adults, aged 15–21. It found that 16% of 1350 surveyed had had this type of sex in the previous 3 months, with condoms being used 29% of the time.[47] However, given the subject matter, the survey hypothesized the prevalence was probably underestimated.

In 2009, Kimberly R. McBride published a clinical report in The Journal of Sex Research which stated that changing norms may affect the frequency of heterosexual anal sex behaviors and suggests that there is a role for the exotic in the sexual repertoires of some heterosexuals" "[F]or a certain number of heterosexuals, anal intercourse is pleasurable, exciting, and perhaps considered more intimate than vaginal sex...". McBride and her colleagues investigated the prevalence of non-intercourse anal sex behaviors among a sample of men (n=1,299) and women (n=1,919) compared to anal intercourse experience and found that 51% of men and 43% of women had participated in at least one act of oral–anal sex, manual–anal sex, or anal sex toy use.[45][48] McBride and Janssen found that the majority of men (n=631) and women (n=856) who reported heterosexual anal intercourse in the past 12 months were in exclusive, monogamous relationships: 69% and 73%, respectively.[45][48]

Figures for prevalence can vary amongst different demographics, regions, and nationalities. A 2001 French survey of five hundred female respondents concluded that a total of 29% had engaged in this practice, with one third of these confirming to have enjoyed the experience.[49] In contrast, in a 1999 South Korean survey of 586 women, 3.5% of respondents reported having had this type of sex.[50]

Figures for the prevalence of sexual behavior can also fluctuate over time. Edward O. Laumann's 1992 survey, reported in The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States, found that about 20% of heterosexuals had engaged in male-to-female anal sex. Sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, working in the 1940s, had found that number to be closer to 40% at the time. More recently, a researcher from the University of British Columbia in 2005 put the number of heterosexuals who have engaged in this practice at between 30% and 50%.[51] According to Columbia University's health website Go Ask Alice!: "Studies indicate that about 25 percent of heterosexual couples have had anal sex at least once, and 10 percent regularly have anal penetration."[52]
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Next time you get your info from wiki you should add a link so I don't have to find this...

By the 1950s in the United Kingdom, it was thought that about fifteen percent of male homosexuals had anal sex.[69][Full citation needed] More recent studies, The Gay Urban Men's Study (P.I. Stall, UCSF) and the Young Men's Study (YMS, PI Osmond/Catania, UCSF), indicate that 50% of the surveyed men who have sex with men engage in anal sex.[70][Full citation needed] [71][Full citation needed] The 1994 Laumann study suggests that 80% of gay men practice it and 20% never engage in it at all.[72]

You mite also want to use the studies of actual homosexuals. :lol:

Just wanted to add this from your source...

The National Institutes of Health (NIH), with information published in the British Medical Journal (BMJ), states that two thirds of gay men have anal sex.[56] Other sources suggest that roughly three-fourths of gay men have anal sex at one time or another in their lives, with an equal percentage participating as tops and bottoms.[58] A survey in The Advocate in 1994 indicated that 46% of gay men preferred to penetrate their partners, while 43% preferred to be the receptive partner.[58] A survey conducted from 1994 to 1997 in San Francisco by the Stop AIDS Project indicated that over the course of the study, among men who have sex with men, the proportion engaging in anal sex increased from 57.6% to 61.2%.[73]
 
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DiAnna said:
The bolded portion of your statement shows ideology that is ignorant at best, hateful at worst. Homosexuals are just as respectable as anyone else. They work, care for their families, love their children and their partners, just like everyone else. And their children are not "seemingly happy." They are happy, because they love their parents and their parents' love them.

Your willingness to prejudge and condemn people you do not even know is profoundly troubling.
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Maybe your right. Maybe two guys (or two girls), having unnatural gay sex, gives them lots more respectability. Yeah, I'm sure.
 
mac said:
Sexual intercourse between two homesuxual. Any act between two homosexuals that provides sexual pleasure.
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OK. That includes oral sex, mutual masturbation, sex with toys, etc...

My religion has no issue with these things.
 
RamFel said:
Maybe your right. Maybe two guys (or two girls), having unnatural gay sex, gives them lots more respectability. Yeah, I'm sure.
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Sex is natural, period. It's not unnatural simply because you are weirded out by it.

Why do you insist on making people about their sexual orientation?
 
RamFel said:
Why yes, they were. It's a horrifying site. Why should I, or anyone else, have to deal with that?
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Because you have no right to not be offended. Don't like it? Don't look. Otherwise, too bad.
 
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