View Poll Results: Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

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  • It's wrong and unnatural

    22 7.94%
  • It's not wrong, just unnatural

    16 5.78%
  • It's neither wrong nor unnatural

    107 38.63%
  • Don't know/care

    16 5.78%
  • Punish/restrict Christians for being against it

    12 4.33%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

  1. #331
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I think it's pretty easy, in the case of sin, to set it apart from morals.

    Sin isn't based on anything. Most sins have no objective reason why they're sins. It's simply claimed to be true by Biblican fiat.

    When you actually look at it, sin is fairly baseless, where as secular morality has actual reasons for its existence.
    Sin and morality are fairly identical. Both deal with right/wrong issues. You can say that one is from a religious bent and the other is from a secular bent, but I see little difference between the two.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #332
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I think the key for our laws though is what is enshrined in the Constitution. The general idea expressed is that every person is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness up to the point where those rights do not impede someone else's rights. Sometimes it is hard to determine where one person's rights end and another person's (or the good of society as a whole) begins, but that is what the specific Bill of Rights rights and the SCOTUS come in.

    I understand that the rights we have in the Constitution are based on our morality but we have specifically restricted them with the Constitution to prevent transient (best word I can think of to describe what I am thinking of) morality from making laws that would wrongfully restrict someone else's rights because the majority of people want to do this.
    In bold. That's where it starts. If the majority of people want a law, based on morality, that alters the Constitution, changing the Consitution is what would occur. Though perhaps unlikely, this is not unfeasable. It all starts with the social norms and morality of a society. And as those norms and morals change, so do laws.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #333
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    In bold. That's where it starts. If the majority of people want a law, based on morality, that alters the Constitution, changing the Consitution is what would occur. Though perhaps unlikely, this is not unfeasable. It all starts with the social norms and morality of a society. And as those norms and morals change, so do laws.
    Only if enough people can get together to change the Constitution though. Which takes a lot more than just the majority of society to change. If laws fit with the Constitution then they only require a majority to enact, but when they don't, they require a Constitutional Amendment which takes 2/3 majority vote of both houses of Congress or 2/3 majority of a Constitutional Convention and 3/4 vote of the states (for either method). This is what I am talking about when referring to laws when they don't fit into the Constitution. This is also why we have a SCOTUS to decide if laws do currently fall in line with the Constitution or if they are unconstitutional, and if the majority really wants those laws they need to change the Constitution to get them enacted to enforce that particular morality.

    The best example of this that comes to mind is the Constitutional Amendment for Prohibition and its subsequent repeal.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 05-28-11 at 09:05 PM.
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  4. #334
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Only if enough people can get together to change the Constitution though. Which takes a lot more than just the majority of society to change. If laws fit with the Constitution then they only require a majority to enact, but when they don't, they require a Constitutional Amendment which takes 2/3 majority vote of both houses of Congress or 2/3 majority of a Constitutional Convention and 3/4 vote of the states (for either method). This is what I am talking about when referring to laws when they don't fit into the Constitution. This is also why we have a SCOTUS to decide if laws do currently fall in line with the Constitution or if they are unconstitutional, and if the majority really wants those laws they need to change the Constitution to get them enacted to enforce that particular morality.

    The best example of this that comes to mind is the Constitutional Amendment for Prohibition and its subsequent repeal.
    That's true. I understand that it is unlikely, but it could happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #335
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    That's true. I understand that it is unlikely, but it could happen.
    Oh and if it happened I would no longer have my stance that SSM bans or DOMA are unconstitutional because it would be saying that this is seen as part of our morality that we want to stay (at least to the same point as Prohibition was). I would still think it was wrong and want the Amendment repealed, but I couldn't do much else except fight for its repeal.

    I doubt this would happen though and I would fight hard against such a thing and would never vote for any politician who supported an Anti-SSM Amendment, no matter how much I agreed with them on everything else.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #336
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Your right to be moral ends at my anus.
    Not true, but you can think that if you like.

    Great response!
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  7. #337
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Sin and morality are fairly identical. Both deal with right/wrong issues. You can say that one is from a religious bent and the other is from a secular bent, but I see little difference between the two.
    They really aren't. If the concept of right/wrong is based on authority, and not on any measure of harm or help, it's baseless. It's simply true because someone in a funny hat says so.

    Just because both sin and morality assert what is right and wrong doesn't mean their validity is equal.

  8. #338
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    They really aren't. If the concept of right/wrong is based on authority, and not on any measure of harm or help, it's baseless. It's simply true because someone in a funny hat says so.

    Just because both sin and morality assert what is right and wrong doesn't mean their validity is equal.
    Both are based on authority and harm/help.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #339
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Within the limits of the Constitution, which, due to the 14th Amendment, means that if there is any question of discrimination, the law needs to be reviewed as to why that discrimination exists and whether it is in fact protecting a legitimate state interest (at the proper level of scrutiny).
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    SSM bans do not protect any state interest, nor can it be said that they do not deserve the right to marriage due to them not being able to procreate unless it could be shown that all marriage laws of any state or the US government that is claiming this is their reason for marriage are actually applying that limitation (procreation) to opposite sex couples. And they are discriminating against a group.
    All marriage does not have to show procreation as it is not the only function of a family. I don't think the hedonistic gay life style is in the states interest, period. Of course I don't think this is really about the states interest at all.

    It's about gays who want the same rights as married couples. I have no problem with that even if I find the lifestyle abhorrent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #340
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I agree.



    All marriage does not have to show procreation as it is not the only function of a family. I don't think the hedonistic gay life style is in the states interest, period. Of course I don't think this is really about the states interest at all.

    It's about gays who want the same rights as married couples. I have no problem with that even if I find the lifestyle abhorrent.
    In bold. You KNOW you're not going to get away with making that kind of absolutist statement without being confronted. Would you please explain what you mean by that term?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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