View Poll Results: Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

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  • It's wrong and unnatural

    22 7.94%
  • It's not wrong, just unnatural

    16 5.78%
  • It's neither wrong nor unnatural

    107 38.63%
  • Don't know/care

    16 5.78%
  • Punish/restrict Christians for being against it

    12 4.33%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

  1. #1461
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Being a Christian is #1 believing that Christ is your Saviour. We are taught about him and his teachings through the Bible. If you are going to make something up, you are no longer a Christian are you?
    This has nothing to do with the points Nuke and I made.

    Who is belittling anyone? This is what the Bible says and what Nuke again implied and many others, end of story.

    As for my comment it is exactly correct to what Nuke said. If you throw away this part and that to fit your own beliefs regardless of what the scripture says, you can justify anything, period.
    Reducing people's religious beliefs to justification and to picking things in order to fit a lifestyle is belittling. Nothing in Nukes post suggests picking and choosing to justify anything - this is a strawman. Your posts in response to me and her show that you take any rejection of certain parts of the Bible as 1) Less than your take on the Bible. 2) Done for the purpose of justification. Neither of these things is true.

    Moreover, you continue to imply that people are "making up gods" based on Christian teachings as if the Christian God is particularly original. Almost any God that anyone believes in will have similarities with the God in Christian teachings - it doesn't mean that someone is picking and choosing parts of the Christian God to believe in in some sneeky/slimy little way - it means that ideas of God exist and they are often similar.

    Moreover, your repeated use of phrases like "throw away this and that" continue to misrepresent the words in Nuke's post. Again - it isn't about picking and choosing to justify - it's about following whatever agrees with one's heart and reason.

  2. #1462
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Any evidence you have is at best circumstantial and based off of what those in power want you to know.
    So even though no evidence at all exist to say otherwise, this must be the case? Well I guess we can't trust any history then because conspiracy theory's are so much more credible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Do you know everything that our government does? Do you believe that they do things that we never find out about (IE no proof of)? Do you think that they falsify documents? If you answered yes then why is the same not applied to those that wrote the bible?
    I have a tin foil hate for sale? I mean really man, no proof, just conjecture on your part. I mean what the hell do thousands of years worth of biblical scholars and historians know anyway, charlatans!
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #1463
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    There are two things we need to discuss about circular reasoning: It is (1) absolutely unavoidable and (2) not necessarily fallacious. Circular reasoning is unavoidable to some degree when proving one's ultimate standard. An ultimate standard cannot be proved from anything else, otherwise it wouldn't be ultimate. Therefore, if it is to be proved, it must use itself as its own standard of judgment by which any decision is made.

    I'm assuming that "on behalf of all religions" that uses the bible as the core source of their beliefs - you are choosing to claim that the bible falls outside the circular logic fallacy. Am I understanding you correctly?

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    This has nothing to do with the points Nuke and I made.
    It has everything to do with the point I made and you tried to derail.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Reducing people's religious beliefs to justification and to picking things in order to fit a lifestyle is belittling.
    I did not "pick" anything. If they are "Christians" they are submitting or supposed to God's will, not their own.

    Matthew 11:28-29 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest," he added, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me."

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Nothing in Nukes post suggests picking and choosing to justify anything - this is a strawman
    Lets see...

    It doesn't matter how good a person is. That is a control thing. One of the things that has led some people, such as myself, away from Christianity, because I choose to believe that a good God would look into a person's heart and not be so petty as to expect people to believe in a book, such as the Bible, just because people thousands of years ago believed that they were telling others what God wanted and how to get to Heaven. I believe that God does not care what religion people follow or what small petty rules a person obeys, as long as they essentially live by the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and try to love each other. All the rest of the rules, including those about homosexuality and others, seem to me to be something that men would care about, not God. That is why I don't trust the Bible, because it does not fit with what my view of a good God is and it could have easily been manipulated by any of the many people who were responsible for it, from the writers of the text to the compilers and the translators and the changers.

    Please read next time. I am certain you can now figure out the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Your posts in response to me and her show that you take any rejection of certain parts of the Bible as 1) Less than your take on the Bible. 2) Done for the purpose of justification. Neither of these things is true.
    Absolutely and unlike you or Nuke, I have posted historical evidence saying you are both wrong. So where is your proof as lip service means little in the realm of debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Moreover, you continue to imply that people are "making up gods" based on Christian teachings as if the Christian God is particularly original. Almost any God that anyone believes in will have similarities with the God in Christian teachings - it doesn't mean that someone is picking and choosing parts of the Christian God to believe in in some sneeky/slimy little way - it means that ideas of God exist and they are often similar.
    Best excuse I have heard all day. You know what they say about excuses?

    You do realize I am talking specifically about those who say they are Christian, right? I mean that has only been my argument for the whole thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Moreover, your repeated use of phrases like "throw away this and that" continue to misrepresent the words in Nuke's post. Again - it isn't about picking and choosing to justify - it's about following whatever agrees with one's heart and reason.
    Not if they call themselves Christian. What part of this did you miss? Or is it because you have absolutely no evidence to back up the rest of your argument?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Gracious. It is as though my mother has risen from the dead and started beating people up with Bible verses again. Red, bolded, and everything.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I'm assuming that "on behalf of all religions" that uses the bible as the core source of their beliefs - you are choosing to claim that the bible falls outside the circular logic fallacy. Am I understanding you correctly?
    You can make your own judgment on it. I am just pointing out a fact that not all circular arguments are indeed a fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    That is not a Bible verse, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #1468
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You can make your own judgment on it. I am just pointing out a fact that not all circular arguments are indeed a fallacy.
    I posted a very clear graphic that provides the fallacy sequence.

    Give us an example that uses a circular argument that doesn't lead to a fallacy conclusion.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I posted a very clear graphic that provides the fallacy sequence.

    Give us an example that uses a circular argument that doesn't lead to a fallacy conclusion.
    I told you take it for what you will. Has nothing to do with my arguments or the points I have made.

    Trying to get back on topic, but people keep coming up with already refuted stuff we have gone over many times already. Have nothing to do with Gay's and natural or unnatural, just attacks on Christians or the core principles of said religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #1470
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Nothing confusing about it. Being attracted to the same sex is not a sin. No place in the Bible does it say it is. ACTING on it in thought or action is the sin.

    It is not that difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Not really.



    How is "claiming you are gay" giving in to temptation? Either you are attracted to men or women, no sin involved in an attraction.



    This has nothing to do directly with attraction. Plenty of gay men and women are gay but good practicing Christians who do not give into the thoughts or physical acts. Makes them no less gay.



    I said nothing like this. If you have yet to figure it out, I don't know what to tell you.



    Again already covered this.

    See above.
    It is confusing because you voted homosexuality is wrong and unnatural. Yet you say there are homosexual Christians.

    Do you mean just homosexual acts and thoughts are sinful? The same-sex attraction is a temptation from Satan; or do you not believe Satan tempts people?

    Would you please explicitly and clearly state your position on this?

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