View Poll Results: Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

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  • It's wrong and unnatural

    22 7.94%
  • It's not wrong, just unnatural

    16 5.78%
  • It's neither wrong nor unnatural

    107 38.63%
  • Don't know/care

    16 5.78%
  • Punish/restrict Christians for being against it

    12 4.33%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

  1. #1421
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And my point was, we weren't there. There is no way for us to know for sure why they put in the books they did or whether they left out more and what significance anything that was left out might have had. It is quite possible that if these people were looking for a way to manipulate certain parts of the Bible to ensure that it was written the way they wanted it to be written, they could have hidden or even destroyed texts that contradicted anything they wanted to ensure was at least some what supported by the Bible.

    It is also possible that they were unintentionally putting things in out of context for what the prophets and/or Jesus and/or God wanted put out. Or that they took things the wrong way. People don't always say or write things exactly as they would like. Sometimes you don't even realize something could be taken the wrong way unless it is pointed out to you. It is also possible that there were texts and/or lessons that were just as important as those or may have expanded on or added to those that are in the Bible that were destroyed and/or lost that could change the entire meaning of the Bible or at least parts of the Bible.
    I am going to dismiss the first paragraph of your post out of hand, and here is why:There is no way for us to know for sure why they put in the books they did or whether they left out more and what significance anything that was left out might have had.

    As I have already shown we know exactly what was put in and what was left out. It is not some great mystery. Nothing was burned or hidden away.

    Again with the "possibly" etc. This is about a well established doctrine and system of beliefs, not some up start new age religion. It has a long history that is well documented.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    However, these are the verses that always freak me right the hell out:

    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    Don't be. They are about only that book as it was not IN the Bible in the beginning, and neither was any other book. It has never been changed as has most of the Bible. The Bible is many different books.

    Do you know what the major difference between the Protestant OT and Catholic OT is? The Protestants ordered them like the Torah and took out the ones the Catholic church added not in the Torah, thats it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #1423
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am going to dismiss the first paragraph of your post out of hand, and here is why:There is no way for us to know for sure why they put in the books they did or whether they left out more and what significance anything that was left out might have had.

    As I have already shown we know exactly what was put in and what was left out. It is not some great mystery. Nothing was burned or hidden away.

    Again with the "possibly" etc. This is about a well established doctrine and system of beliefs, not some up start new age religion. It has a long history that is well documented.
    And you don't know for sure. Why would they document the fact that they were destroying what should be sacred texts? They would probably take those secrets to their graves. And even if they didn't, it isn't likely that the churches that might have that information would allow such a sacrilege to become public. It would be a horrible scandle if anyone living does know about it. Likely though, if something like this did happen, it was never recorded and kept a complete secret. It wouldn't have been that hard to do back then. It isn't like they had recording equipment of any kind and they had the power to ensure that secrets were kept.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And you don't know for sure. Why would they document the fact that they were destroying what should be sacred texts? They would probably take those secrets to their graves. And even if they didn't, it isn't likely that the churches that might have that information would allow such a sacrilege to become public. It would be a horrible scandle if anyone living does know about it. Likely though, if something like this did happen, it was never recorded and kept a complete secret. It wouldn't have been that hard to do back then. It isn't like they had recording equipment of any kind and they had the power to ensure that secrets were kept.
    They destroyed one text because it was the only one, let me emphasize the only one out of hundreds that said Jesus was just a man. That's it. The rest are available and were not burned etc.

    So your premise is based on flawed information. Which makes the conclusion incorrect as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You should slap palm as it was pretty easy to see from his statement.
    I don't think you're understanding the purpose of my comment.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It is not the fault of the Bible that MAN has issues with the truth written inside.
    Right. But you don't have any evidence that it was written by anyone other than man. Consequently, it's a legitimate argument that the Bible was written by power hungry men who wanted to scare people into obeying them.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I don't think you're understanding the purpose of my comment.
    Probably not. I just saw it was plain he was talking from a Christian perspective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Right. But you don't have any evidence that it was written by anyone other than man. Consequently, it's a legitimate argument that the Bible was written by power hungry men who wanted to scare people into obeying them.
    I know it was written by man, no doubt. The finger of God did not come down and write it for us. The Gospels were not written to scare anyone, it preaches the exact opposite. We have already been over this. We are also getting way WAY of topic.

    So I will leave you with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    So you don't think homosexuality is sinful in Christian regards, BlackDog, even though there are about ten verses against it? Let us ignore the verses on adultery, too. Or fornication, lust, etc. But no, suddenly the verses are crystal clear...

    The things people will say to ignore scripture...

  10. #1430
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    So you don't think homosexuality is sinful in Christian regards, BlackDog, even though there are about ten verses against it? Let us ignore the verses on adultery, too. Or fornication, lust, etc. But no, suddenly the verses are crystal clear...

    The things people will say to ignore scripture...
    You have got to be kidding me?

    Did you read what I posted in the loft or are you ignorant of English? Did you read the PM I sent you or are you unable to read?

    Here this should have clear it up for you...

    First off let me say being "gay" is not a sin, no place does the New or Old Testament say it is. This is not an attack on homosexuals nor is it a condemnation of homosexuality as we are all sinners.

    Romans 3:10-11 10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

    According to the Old Testament sodomy is considered a sin or being ritually unclean. According to recent surveys roughly 67% to 80% of male homosexuals practice sodomy.

    Leviticus: Lv. 18:223: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It
    is an abomination."


    20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman,
    both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to
    death."


    Lesbianism or acts of lesbianism is not even mentioned in the Old Testament in any form. Going by the original text and Jewish interpretation it is not even considered fornication or adultery as it involves no penetration by the male phallus.

    Everything in the OT covering sexual uncleanliness or sin seems to revolve around penetration by the male phallus and nothing else.

    In the New Testament sexual acts involving men with men and women with women are defined clearly. Even when taking into account translation errors from the Greek, it is plain in it's condemnation of said acts. It goes beyond merely the male phallus and calls them "unnatural" etc.

    1 Cor 6:9-10: "Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom
    of God? Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolators, nor the effeminate,
    nor those who lie with males...will inherit the kingdom of God."


    Romans 1:26-27: "For this reason God handed them over to dishonorable
    passions, and their women exchanged their natural use for the unnatural.
    And similaly the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned with
    desire for one another, males working impropriety on males, and receiving
    in themselves the pay which was proper for their wandering."


    1 Tim 1:9-10: "Knowing this,that the law is not there for the righteous
    man, but for lawless ones...sexually loose, those who lie with males...."


    Jude 7: "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which
    likewise acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an
    example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."


    Here in lies the debate...

    Being gay is not a sin, but according to the OT sodomy is. According to the NT all sexual acts out of wedlock are a sin including homosexuality in or out of wedlock. Jesus himself said even thinking or contemplating an act forbidden is a sin.

    Mark 9: 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

    Now Jesus laid down and defined that marriage is about a man and a woman, period. In reference he was talking about divorce, this does not however negate him defining what marriage is supposed to be according to God in the Biblical sense.

    Mark 10:9-12But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.' 7 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." 10 And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter. 11 And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; 12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

    So how can a Christian church marry two men or woman when it is clearly against the Bibles commands? How can a pastor, priest etc condone it?

    I belive gay marraige should be accepted in our secular society as law. Equal treatment under the law is to important.

    What I don't understand is how Christian's can ignore entire swaths of the Bible when it is biblically clear on what is and is not permissible.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-10-11 at 09:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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