View Poll Results: Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

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  • It's wrong and unnatural

    22 7.94%
  • It's not wrong, just unnatural

    16 5.78%
  • It's neither wrong nor unnatural

    107 38.63%
  • Don't know/care

    16 5.78%
  • Punish/restrict Christians for being against it

    12 4.33%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

  1. #1121
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    There is no evidence to suggest we developed homosexuality to serve any real purpose.
    How is the pursuit of happiness not a real purpose?
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  2. #1122
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    How is the pursuit of happiness not a real purpose?
    The pursuit of happiness is philisophical, not physical.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  3. #1123
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    woohoo! voice of sanity from mac in a homosexuality thread! we should throw a party!
    Meh.............
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  4. #1124
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Some people say the same about this little organ called the appendix.
    Wrong. The appendix had a purpose....and still does, we can just live without it. Tonsils too. Try again, homey.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  5. #1125
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's my side...not me.
    Correct. Then don't feed into it.

    There is no evidence to suggest we developed homosexuality to serve any real purpose.
    That's not what I asked. Define unnatural.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #1126
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Correct. Then don't feed into it.
    Ditto.


    That's not what I asked. Define unnatural.
    We been there, homey. you know my position.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  7. #1127
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Ditto.
    There's a difference, mac. Your side brings it up as a degrading tactic. That will not go unanswered. When that kind of ignorance remains without confrontation, someone might actually believe it. Look at this thread, for example. The only people who will believe that homosexuality is unnatural are those who already believe it and who won't change their mind no matter what evidence is presented. Folks who didn't know... after reading this thread they can easily see how both the logic and the definition completely refute the unnaturality argument. They can also see the lack of logic behind the morality of the "natural" argument.

    It's not your issue and it's not important to you, so I would think your best move would be to either stay out of it if it comes up, or to confront people on the irrelevance of the argument itself.

    We been there, homey. you know my position.
    Sure. And as has been proven, your position is wrong.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #1128
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    "Purpose" has nothing to do with the definition of natural. There is absolutely zero evidence that anything on Earth has purpose. The idea of "purpose" is a purely philosophical or religious one and it is not involved in any accepted definition of natural.

    I also find it funny that you dodged CC's question yet again. Just define natural mac and while you're at it, tell us why dictionaries are unreliable sources for definitions.
    I explained this awhile ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Just so we are all clear. mac is using a definition of "natural" from Natural Moral Law which in turn is derived from Aristotelian Philosophy. Most people stopped using his definition of "natural" in the Medieval ages. The Catholic Church and other orthodox Christian sects have kept it alive. His definition of "natural" is a teleological construct. He believes that everything is designed to serve a purpose and if it does not serve that purpose then it is an "unnatural" act. This form of Aristotelian Philosophy was abandoned by most of the world hundreds of years ago since it was based entirely upon speculation and conjecture.

    For example, anal sex is "unnatural" because it does not lead to procreation. The rectum is not a reproductive organ. By extension, masturbation and oral sex are equally as "unnatural" since they don't lead to procreation. The hand and the mouth are not reproductive organs. In vitro fertilisation, which is the process of fertilising an egg with a sperm outside the body is also considered a highly "unnatural" act.

    Most people today use an empirical definition of "natural". Empiricism is the basis of science, and it holds that observation and measurement are the key to understanding the world. As such, the modern definition of "natural" is that which is observable and measurable. Homosexuality is "natural" by this definition because it can be observed occurring prevalently in the higher animal kingdom.

    So nobody is speaking the same language as mac. He is using an ancient and outdated worldview.
    mac just likes his outdated definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  9. #1129
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The pursuit of happiness is philisophical, not physical.
    Devotion to God is philosophical. I guess that makes it unnatural as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  10. #1130
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    Re: Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    There's a difference, mac. Your side brings it up as a degrading tactic. That will not go unanswered. When that kind of ignorance remains without confrontation, someone might actually believe it. Look at this thread, for example. The only people who will believe that homosexuality is unnatural are those who already believe it and who won't change their mind no matter what evidence is presented. Folks who didn't know... after reading this thread they can easily see how both the logic and the definition completely refute the unnaturality argument. They can also see the lack of logic behind the morality of the "natural" argument.
    There's no logic behind either side. Like I said, as long as no-one is saying "it's perfectly natural" I'll hold my peace.

    It's not your issue and it's not important to you, so I would think your best move would be to either stay out of it if it comes up, or to confront people on the irrelevance of the argument itself.
    I don't like folks misrepresenting the evidence. For example, homosexuality has not been proven to be genetic.

    Sure. And as has been proven, your position is wrong.
    All that's been shown is that you disagree with it and that you care little for evolution.
    Last edited by mac; 06-04-11 at 08:17 PM.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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