View Poll Results: Rate the level of interference Democracy has in Americans ability to solve problems:

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • one (no interference)

    12 29.27%
  • two

    2 4.88%
  • three

    2 4.88%
  • four

    2 4.88%
  • five

    2 4.88%
  • six

    2 4.88%
  • seven

    3 7.32%
  • eight

    1 2.44%
  • nine

    1 2.44%
  • ten (Total Interference)

    14 34.15%
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Thread: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    More year than there have been between 1776 and 2011, apparently.
    Youíre talking about dogma. Your general position is that everyone is making the incorrect, stupid, decision about what to do until they have switched to your dogma. Since your dogma isnít selling that well you may have to wait forever. Sorry.

  2. #72
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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Democracy isn't the problem. Greed is.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Democracy isn't the problem. Greed is.
    Apparently greed is a human characteristic. Maybe a few operate without greed, although most can set it aside most of the time. Itís a given, canít fix it. Greed isnít limited to short term gain, informed greed can delay short term gain for long term gain, and it doesnít always drive or require taking from another. It is generally what drives business. So given how people are, what form a government works best?

  4. #74
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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    You’re talking about dogma. Your general position is that everyone is making the incorrect, stupid, decision about what to do until they have switched to your dogma. Since your dogma isn’t selling that well you may have to wait forever. Sorry.
    Dogma is not the solution. Dogma is the problem. No, I'm not talking about dogma, but about understanding what the issues of the day are, rather than cheering for a party as if it were a favorite team.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Lobbying (a corruption of democracy) is hurting America.

  6. #76
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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Lobbying (a corruption of democracy) is hurting America.
    To some extent (as it creates competing interests that can create deadlock), but lobbying is also good and a means for the public's voice to be heard in an otherwise difficult environment to be heard.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-25-11 at 02:59 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Democracy isn't the problem. Greed is.
    Er...in a democracy, the idea is everyone looks out for their own interests and a strong system is forged from that. Greed is kinda necessary, actually.
    A history of knowledge will not make us clever for the next time, but wise forever.
    -Jacob Burckhardt.

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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    To some extent (as it creates competing interests that can create deadlock), but lobbying is also good and a means for the public's voice to be heard in an otherwise difficult environment to be heard.
    I don't have a problem, for the most part, with public interest Lobby Groups. Children's health, public safety, even the NRA, but corporate lobbyists, they represent a legal construct which may have a fiscal interest contrary to the public's interest.

    I am not against corporations making money and fairly compensating their employees at all levels, but to the extent discussions about pragmatic reform are pushed aside in the interest of making money, that is a corruption of democracy.

    Also, in our current political culture, election campaigns cost money. Senators and congressmen will be more inclined to give personal face time to the biggest contributors and send an aide to meet with a grassroots group. This is only hypothetical, of course, but assuming that both sides have valid and compelling interests, (i.e. profit is good for the economy, public safety is good for the public), the smaller group without money has less chance of being heard, making their case directly to their representative. In a Republic, there needs to be a balance. Direct access should not be reserved for Lobby/Industry groups that can throw expensive fund raisers and make large contributions.

    I can say both of my senators make a good effort at being accessible to constituents.
    Last edited by hazlnut; 05-25-11 at 03:49 PM.

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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanten Janubi View Post
    Er...in a democracy, the idea is everyone looks out for their own interests and a strong system is forged from that.
    #1 His on interests.

    #2 Please show me a single definition of Democracy (I realize there are many) that mentions the concept of participants 'look[ing] out for their own interests...' as a key factor.


    Greed is kinda necessary, actually.
    Despite what Gordon Gekko(Ivan Boesky) said, Greed is an excessive desire to possess wealth or goods with the intention to keep it for one's self. Greed - like lust and gluttony - is a sin of excess.

    However, greed (as seen by the church) is applied to a very excessive or rapacious desire and pursuit of wealth, status, and power. St. Thomas Aquinas wrote that greed was "a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, in as much as man condemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things." In Dante's Purgatory, the penitents were bound and laid face down on the ground for having concentrated too much on earthly thoughts. "Avarice" is more of a blanket term that can describe many other examples of greedy behavior. These include disloyalty, deliberate betrayal, or treason, especially for personal gain, for example through bribery. Scavenging and hoarding of materials or objects, theft and robbery, especially by means of violence, trickery, or manipulation of authority are all actions that may be inspired by greed. Such misdeeds can include simony, where one profits from soliciting goods within the actual confines of a church.
    Every time you pay your Credit Card interest, just smile and think of Dante. Usurers are placed on the inner ring of the seventh circle of hell...with the blasphemers and sodomites.

    Anyway, more to the point, GREED is absolutely not necessary and should be avoided in a moral society.
    Last edited by hazlnut; 05-25-11 at 04:11 PM.

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    Re: Is Democracy Blocking America's Ability To Solve It's Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    #1 His on interests.

    #2 Please show me a single definition of Democracy (I realize there are many) that mentions the concept of participants 'look[ing] out for their own interests...' as a key factor.
    It's the entire concept of liberal democracy, with roots in Locke/Rousseau/Hobbes and into Adam Smith. The modern attraction to democracy is that 'the market' (as in the marketplace of ideas) is self-correcting. That's what the Wealth of Nations was about, and it's all interconnected. Enough people work in their own self-interest and it works in the interest of the nation at large.

    Despite what Gordon Gekko(Ivan Boesky) said, Greed is an excessive desire to possess wealth or goods with the intention to keep it for one's self. Greed - like lust and gluttony - is a sin of excess.
    Okay? In large systems, 'sins of excess' work as counterweights to each other. In economies, in governments, in biospheres, in organisms like our own bodies.

    Anyway, my point is that democracies are designed for greed, they aren't suffering because of it. If you point to a greedy action hurting a democracy in the big picture, in the long run, all you're doing, really, is pointing to a problem in the structure of the democracy itself.

    And I don't have any credit card interest, but if I did I wouldn't get upset at 'greedy' people and call them immoral.
    A history of knowledge will not make us clever for the next time, but wise forever.
    -Jacob Burckhardt.

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