View Poll Results: Do the Democrats have a serious candidate for 2012?

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  • Yes, Obama is the President. How much more serious can you get?

    7 36.84%
  • Yes, better to go with what you have than go through the primary process.

    1 5.26%
  • No, time to open it up to Hillary or Lieberman or some more rational Democrat candidate

    1 5.26%
  • Heck no, I wouldn't vote for any Democrat.

    10 52.63%
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Thread: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

  1. #11
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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    We have heard a great deal of talk in recent days about how the GOP doesn't have a "serious" candidate. Compared to the GOP class of 2016, that may be true. But does the left have a serious candidate? Nevermind Obama's failed economic policies. Does his new anti-Israel policy of land ransoms to terrorist groups spell the end of his chances for re-election? Is it time for Democrats to find a pro-Israel candidate and hold a primary?
    No. Most Americans don't give a **** about Israel, including most Jewish-Americans.
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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No. Most Americans don't give a **** about Israel, including most Jewish-Americans.
    Support for Israel in U.S. at 63%, Near Record High

    Kandahar, you don't speak for most Americans, you're a radical who compared between the Israeli government and the terrorist organization of Hamas.

    As to the OP I don't think Obama took an anti-Israeli position here and I doubt the majority of Americans would think so. Regardless I also doubt it is such a significant factor in the elections of a president in the US.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 05-23-11 at 06:04 AM.
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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Yes, and Fox news is the most popular news station in the US and the most popular vomiting inducing agent in hospitals abroad. As if 60% of Americans supporting Israel over Palestine means anything. In a one vs the other sure, but this is not an index on how much a **** is given about Israel. The people who give the most damn about Israel are the ones who believe christ is coming back. If this were an index on 'how much' Americans cared about Israel rather than support for one or the other it may actually be a conceptually valid piece of evidence. Until then your post was an oops.

  4. #14
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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The poll didn't ask them how much they actually care though. On the list of issues that voters care about, I bet the Israel-Palestine conflict ranks somewhere between earmarks and flag-burning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse
    Kandahar, you don't speak for most Americans, you're a radical
    Now what is the purpose of this, other than to randomly start trouble? Especially when you follow it up with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse
    Regardless I also doubt it is such a significant factor in the elections of a president in the US.
    So in other words, you agree 100% with what I wrote in my previous post that it's not a major concern for American voters. You just couldn't agree without getting yourself a rules infraction in the process.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-23-11 at 06:45 AM.
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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The poll didn't ask them how much they actually care though. On the list of issues that voters care about, I bet the Israel-Palestine conflict ranks somewhere between earmarks and flag-burning.
    That they claim support for Israel is enough to debunk the claim that the majority of Americans "don't give a ****".

    Now what is the purpose of this, other than to randomly start trouble? Especially when you follow it up with this:



    So in other words, you agree 100% with what I wrote in my previous post that it's not a major concern for American voters. You just couldn't agree without getting yourself a rules infraction in the process.
    Claiming that I believe your views on the subject to be radical is not a personal assault as I am referring to your politics and not to you yourself, furthermore I discuss it in the context of you claiming what the opinion of most Americans is. Secondly, you did not say that the issue is not a significant factor but that the issue is not a factor at all, AKA, majority of Americans "don't give a ****".
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That they claim support for Israel is enough to debunk the claim that the majority of Americans "don't give a ****".
    No it isn't. Telling a pollster that they sympathize more with one side over the other says absolutely nothing about the intensity of that support. There are some issues in American politics that generate strong opinions on which people are closely divided (e.g. abortion). There are other issues where there is a widespread consensus but most people just don't give a **** (e.g. campaign finance reform). The Israel-Palestine conflict is in the latter category, although apparently the consensus isn't even that widespread if those Gallup statistics are correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse
    Claiming that I believe your views on the subject to be radical is not a personal assault as I am referring to your politics and not to you yourself,
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-23-11 at 07:01 AM.
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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That they claim support for Israel is enough to debunk the claim that the majority of Americans "don't give a ****".



    Claiming that I believe your views on the subject to be radical is not a personal assault as I am referring to your politics and not to you yourself, furthermore I discuss it in the context of you claiming what the opinion of most Americans is. Secondly, you did not say that the issue is not a significant factor but that the issue is not a factor at all, AKA, majority of Americans "don't give a ****".
    No, unfortunately the parameters of the poll dont meet the criteria to back your asertion that they do. The only way to do that is to measure level of interest on a scale. (Research methods). To put it simply if Americans didnt care for chalupas or chimichangas but they were polled on them and chimichangas were more popular, that still dosnt mean they have much interest in them at all. Construct validity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    No, unfortunately the parameters of the poll dont meet the criteria to back your asertion that they do. The only way to do that is to measure level of interest on a scale. (Research methods). To put it simply if Americans didnt care for chalupas or chimichangas but they were polled on them and chimichangas were more popular, that still dosnt mean they have much interest in them at all. Construct validity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    When you're being asked if you support the New York Knicks, the Boston Celtics or Both/Neither/No opinion, and you vote for either the Knicks or Celtics, then you pretty much give a **** about the team you voted for.
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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No it isn't. Telling a pollster that they sympathize more with one side over the other says absolutely nothing about the intensity of that support.
    In the case when they did not give a **** about one they would either vote for the other or vote for the option "neither/no opinion", they would not vote for the one they don't give **** about even if they give more **** about that one than the other, as there is an option for "none/no opinion", right? It's really elementary stuff, nothing Einstein is needed for to solve.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  10. #20
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    Re: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No. Most Americans don't give a **** about Israel, including most Jewish-Americans.
    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    No, unfortunately the parameters of the poll dont meet the criteria to back your asertion that they do.
    “The findings of the present study challenge the view of a widening schism between American Jews and Israel,” it concludes. “A majority of American Jews feel attached to Israel and the overall level of attachment has remained stable for nearly a quarter of a century.”

    The study, in which about 1,200 people were interviewed in June, did show generally lower levels of “connection to Israel” among those younger than 30. But for the Brandeis researchers, these numbers are not surprising. Every generation goes through a normal “lifecycle,” the study reports, in which attachment to Israel grows as people get older; in similar studies over the past 20 years, these researchers say, the ratio of younger people who don’t feel an attachment to Israel has remained constant. Instead, the researchers point to a steady number: the 63% of all respondents who say they feel “very much” or “somewhat” connected to Israel, and the 75% who say that Israel is an important part of their identity.

    And, even more significantly for the currently polarized climate, this study sees no correlation between political ideology and attachment to Israel.
    Survey Says Young Jews Do Care About Israel
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-23-11 at 07:14 AM.

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