View Poll Results: If assault and rape can be proven is deadily force:

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    46 73.02%
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Thread: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

  1. #51
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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It doesn't have anything to do with being stupid. I has to do with just not being able to accept the facts. A shrink could probably explain it better than I.
    No, I get what you're saying. There's a sort of mental block when it comes to trauma like that, especially in parents. I guess I'm speaking from a position that, if I had robbed a place and gotten shot, my folks wouldn't even talk to me. I know they'd want me in prison for the maximum sentence. That's just how they are.

    So, yes, thinking about it like that, I too can catch a glimpse of that "reasoning". It's still 100% wrong and if that hadn't been happening outside the courtroom, it would've come to blows and blood.

  2. #52
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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Excuse my off topicness, my language and my anger, but that is a seriously ****ED up analysis of the effects of rape.

    First off, minor scratching and bruising? I get my scratching a bruising playing with my boxer. Forcing a woman to submit to rape causes SERIOUS bodily harm in the struggle. Not to mention the absolutely devastating mental effects of this trauma. This asshat needs to learn a thing or two before he opens his drooling yap. I wonder if he still thinks rape is about having a raging boner and not the psychological and physical domination of another individual who is seen as less than human?

    I'm not much for language analysis, but downplaying rape like this ****tard did contributes to a culture that sees women as the plaything of men, and that is simply inexcusable.

    Again, I apologize for the language, I'm not big on swearing, but that was more than a little disturbing to hear someone so casually brush off rape like that.

    "Oh, it's just a few scratches..." Jesus Harold tapdancing Christ on rubber crutches.

    Now turning to the question at hand...

    I think all women should be armed against sexual assault. As long as we live in a society where rape happens, individuals need to defend themselves. A snubnose .38 fits into a purse or a small holster, mace also works wonder and fits almost anywhere. Knives are intimidating and extremely damaging. Anything a person can use to prevent someone from assaulting and forcing them into a victim role is a-okay with me.

    That being said, I don't like that dis-empowering notion of "watch where you're at and who's around." Women have the absolute right to walk anywhere she please, dressed how she wants and to be free from the threat of assault or rape. Look, I acknowledge rape as a fact, and it will never be eliminated completely, but the attitudes that men learn to become psychologically able to rape someone need to be addressed as much as women need to learn to defend themselves from serious assault with deadly force.


    I agree with most of what you said. However, the bolded part... I have some caveats about that.

    I teach self-defense, including defensive handgunning, to women quite regularly. I don't think it is "dis-empowering" to go over high-risk behaviors and talk about why certain things are a bad idea. Drinking heavily in a venue where you aren't safe, going off with a stranger, etc.

    Sure, every woman should be safe from rape regardless... but the fact is it ain't so and probably never will be. We have to deal with reality, and not "should".

    I should, given the American tradition of free speech, be able to yell "Harley Davidson sucks!" at the top of my lungs in a biker bar at 4AM and leave the place unscathed. If I were fool enough to do such a thing, should won't save me from the mass-beatdown-and-boot-party I'm likely to suffer as a result. We have to be realistic.

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  3. #53
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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    gawd aint that the truth. If someone breaks into my house, they will be met with deadly force. I have a family to protect, as well as stuff that is hard earned. This bleeding heart mentality is for the birds.
    I will be honest...I wont shoot to protect my 'stuff.' Thats just my choice. But if there is a threat to family...all bets are off. WhenI carry concealed I ALMOSt (with very rare exceptions) have at least two forms of non-lethal defense on hand. The best defense is the brain and being situationally aware.

  4. #54
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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I agree with most of what you said. However, the bolded part... I have some caveats about that.

    I teach self-defense, including defensive handgunning, to women quite regularly. I don't think it is "dis-empowering" to go over high-risk behaviors and talk about why certain things are a bad idea. Drinking heavily in a venue where you aren't safe, going off with a stranger, etc.

    Sure, every woman should be safe from rape regardless... but the fact is it ain't so and probably never will be. We have to deal with reality, and not "should".

    I should, given the American tradition of free speech, be able to yell "Harley Davidson sucks!" at the top of my lungs in a biker bar at 4AM and leave the place unscathed. If I were fool enough to do such a thing, should won't save me from the mass-beatdown-and-boot-party I'm likely to suffer as a result. We have to be realistic.
    The thing is though that the large majority of rapes aren't committed by a stranger, they're committed by someone the woman knows, and in many cases trusts. To expect us to be on our guard at all time, ready to draw our weapons at a moments notice seems unreasonable. While I agree that women do need to take some precautions for our own safety we also need to do more to change a culture where date rape is acceptable and common.

  5. #55
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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    The thing is though that the large majority of rapes aren't committed by a stranger, they're committed by someone the woman knows, and in many cases trusts. To expect us to be on our guard at all time, ready to draw our weapons at a moments notice seems unreasonable. While I agree that women do need to take some precautions for our own safety we also need to do more to change a culture where date rape is acceptable and common.
    I wouldn't say that it is "acceptable". Common certainly...but not acceptable.
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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I teach self-defense, including defensive handgunning, to women quite regularly. I don't think it is "dis-empowering" to go over high-risk behaviors and talk about why certain things are a bad idea. Drinking heavily in a venue where you aren't safe, going off with a stranger, etc.

    Sure, every woman should be safe from rape regardless... but the fact is it ain't so and probably never will be. We have to deal with reality, and not "should".
    No, I totally agree, that's exactly the point I was trying make, perhaps it didn't come out right. Yes, I agree, reality bites, rape happens and women NEED to know how to defend themselves. And yes, no matter how unfair it is (is there anything fair about rape?), women putting themselves in dangerous situations too, too often spells big trouble. I'm with you 100% on that.

    The point I was trying to make is that while covering your butt is important, I was trying to address the larger issue; how men develop the mental capacity to rape someone. That is a (mostly) learned behavior, and major steps need to be taken educationally, socially and culturally to change (some) men's views of women as "whores", "bitches" and "hoes". This dehumanization mind-set removes the humanity from women and makes taking what you want from them that much easier. Rape is psychological; it's about power, not sex. If rape was about being out-of-control horny, that'd be a much harder fight. But it's not, it's a mind set towards women (and usually people in general). That mind set needs to fought tooth and nail.

    What I meant by "dis-empowering" is, it's no too far of a leap from "avoid this and that" to "well, it's her fault, she was here doing this". Regardless of what she was doing, no woman should be blamed for her rape because she "shouldn't have been doing this here". It's more a theoretical point, but it has implications in reality. Furthermore, feelings of guilt for rape reduces the chances that physical evidence of a rape can be collected and used to prosecute rapists. Women who feel responsible statistically are less likely to report assault (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-50-women.html)

    Short term; arm women from attack
    Long term: fight the mind set that sets up future rapists

    Btw, what kind of self-defense do you teach? I took many years of Taekwondo, earned my red belt before I had to quit and am getting ready to start Krav Maga, I'm super stoked to begin!
    Last edited by RadicalModerate; 05-23-11 at 12:37 AM.

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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I wouldn't say that it is "acceptable". Common certainly...but not acceptable.
    I've heard some pretty shocking things coming from high-school aged boys...

    What was that chant, "no means yes, yes means anal"? I fear this may be more prevalent then we care to admit.
    Last edited by RadicalModerate; 05-23-11 at 12:57 AM. Reason: cuz I can't type

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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    The Mayor sees no moral dilemma with killing the assailant to prevent a rape. ITMO it isn't even necessary to prove that no recourse, such as flight or pepperspray were available.

    Assualt is a different matter. In the Mayor's experience, the damn LAPD shot a crazy old bag lady, fatally, when she lunged at two healthy twenty year old thugs with badges as they attempted to repossess the shopping cart she'd taken. There were clear alternatives to deadly force, but, being thugs with badges, the nice young men got away with killing an old lady.

    If the damn cops can do it for simple assault, clearly it's okay for everyone else, right?

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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    The thing is though that the large majority of rapes aren't committed by a stranger, they're committed by someone the woman knows, and in many cases trusts. To expect us to be on our guard at all time, ready to draw our weapons at a moments notice seems unreasonable. While I agree that women do need to take some precautions for our own safety we also need to do more to change a culture where date rape is acceptable and common.
    What's really needed is a culture where the concept of rape isn't diluted with the word "date".

    It's either rape.

    Or it's not.

  10. #60
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    Re: Assult and Rape, does it justify deadly force?

    I truly doubt that most men can relate to this with the proper mind set, not being subject to such violent attacks, for the most part.

    Rape is not about sex, it's about control and violence.

    I do wish there was a way we could punish some people in a manner that would have the long lasting metal issues that they subject women to.

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