View Poll Results: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

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  • Neither should be banned.

    23 50.00%
  • Both should be banned.

    17 36.96%
  • Only the DUI checkpoint app should be banned.

    1 2.17%
  • Only the Red Light came app should be banned.

    3 6.52%
  • I do not know know/maybe/other

    2 4.35%
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Thread: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

  1. #81
    Professor xpiher's Avatar
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If a cop sees someone swearving and driving recklessly, they may pull them over. If they believe they could be drunk driving, they may test them. If someone is driving fine, shown no indication of poor driving; the police MUST move along.
    So there is no justification, in your mind, for a DUI check point?

  2. #82
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    So there is no justification, in your mind, for a DUI check point?
    Not that I can see. It appears in general to be a gross violation of the 4th, and clearly an unreasonable search of my person which I am most certainly allowed to protect against such things.

    Probable cause is ALWAYS needed for the government to act.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #83
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's only because you're thinking about this emotionally. I err on the side of freedom and liberty, always have and always will.
    If I must err, I would prefer to err on the side of propriety. People who drink ought not to drive; this is an important rule, and must be upheld. When a person is behaving recklessly, in such a fashion to constitute a risk to others, I do not believe in waiting until he actually harms someone to stop him. He needs to be stopped before someone is hurt, and if the penalties imposed by a first offense are not sufficient to stop the reckless behavior, then stricter measures must be employed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not some made up notion that all dunks are evil and will kill someone.
    I don't believe drunks are evil. I believe they are reckless, and if they will not show concern for others, we must make it so that they show concern for their own self-interest. Too much damage is done in society by people behaving recklessly who think that the consequences of their behavior will never happen to them.

  4. #84
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not that I can see. It appears in general to be a gross violation of the 4th, and clearly an unreasonable search of my person which I am most certainly allowed to protect against such things.

    Probable cause is ALWAYS needed for the government to act.
    Not even if there is a dunken party for some big event, say like spots?

  5. #85
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    If I must err, I would prefer to err on the side of propriety. People who drink ought not to drive; this is an important rule, and must be upheld. When a person is behaving recklessly, in such a fashion to constitute a risk to others, I do not believe in waiting until he actually harms someone to stop him. He needs to be stopped before someone is hurt, and if the penalties imposed by a first offense are not sufficient to stop the reckless behavior, then stricter measures must be employed.
    You can stop him, you can punish him. Just not at the level as if he had actually harmed another, as (in our hypothetical anyway) he has not. You cannot punish people for crimes they did not commit, or could have possibly committed. You can punish people for crimes in which they did commit (or I guess that you can prove in a court of law). Punishment must be limted to be a reasonable response to the crime. Crimes which do not cause personal or property damage of another are not crimes which warrant excessive, brutal, and overreaching punishments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    I don't believe drunks are evil. I believe they are reckless, and if they will not show concern for others, we must make it so that they show concern for their own self-interest. Too much damage is done in society by people behaving recklessly who think that the consequences of their behavior will never happen to them.
    They are reckeless, and you can punish them accordingly. But that's it, for nothing else. This ideal must be held if we wish to remain free.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #86
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Not even if there is a dunken party for some big event, say like spots?
    I don't know what spots is (are?). If a cop sees a man stumble out of a bar and get behind the wheel, he may intercede. If he sees someone driving erratically and recklessly, he may intercede. He may not in general pull anyone over who has obeyed the law and demonstrated no sign of altered driving.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #87
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    So you are completely against DUI check points, or does having them outside of party probable cause?
    The first point is that I have NEVER EVER witnessed a police car stationed on the road outside a bar or party to catch people that are drinking and driving. I have often pondered why not actually. My conclusion is that if cops sat outside all the bars in town and arrested people for DUI when they leave eventually all the bars and the associated beer, wine, spirit, cigarette taxes with them. But I digress.
    Being "at a party", or "at a bar" is not, by itself, probable cause. Leaving a party and swerving on the road, driving erratically, or puking out the window, would be probable cause.
    In a case in NC a driver went through a traffic checkpoint and the officer spotted a High Times magazine on the passengers seat. Used this as reasonable suspicion to search the car for pot. Completely unreasonable. The guy had the magazine for paper he was doing research for.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Public safety doesn't play role?
    At a checkpoint, no one is endangering the public. They could even get someone for DUI who may or may not have been endangering the public.
    From the ashes.

  8. #88
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The first point is that I have NEVER EVER witnessed a police car stationed on the road outside a bar or party to catch people that are drinking and driving.
    It happens, in my city for damned sure since there isn't really any other crime and the cops are in general bored. You can also get a DUI while not driving.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #89
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Punishment must be limted to be a reasonable response to the crime. Crimes which do not cause personal or property damage of another are not crimes which warrant excessive, brutal, and overreaching punishments.
    I have never believed in proportionate response and I am not about to start now.

  10. #90
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    I have never believed in proportionate response and I am not about to start now.
    Well I ain't ever believed in excessive government force, and I'm not about to now.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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