View Poll Results: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

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  • Neither should be banned.

    23 50.00%
  • Both should be banned.

    17 36.96%
  • Only the DUI checkpoint app should be banned.

    1 2.17%
  • Only the Red Light came app should be banned.

    3 6.52%
  • I do not know know/maybe/other

    2 4.35%
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Thread: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    People may be able to see me, but I still retain the right to secure myself, my papers and property against unlawful, unreasonable search and seizure.
    ^^ There is the soundbyte again.

    Yet still no explanation to what Ikari THINKS this means, in a legal sense.

    Also, I noticed you added the word "unlawful" to the text of the 4th amendment.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  2. #102
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not that I can see. It appears in general to be a gross violation of the 4th, and clearly an unreasonable search of my person which I am most certainly allowed to protect against such things.

    Probable cause is ALWAYS needed for the government to act.
    Its not a search of your person......

    I think the argument you were actually looking for was "It is an unreasonable seizure"

    Do I have to make your arguments for you?

    Hint: Probable cause is not always needed for the government to act. The text of the 4th says "unreasonable search and seizure" then mentions that no warrants shall be issued except upon probable cause. Don't string the two together. For a police officer to make a traffic stop, he/she requires "REASONABLE SUSPICION" (opposed to "unreasonable" which would be a violation of the 4th).
    Last edited by Caine; 05-19-11 at 08:14 AM.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  3. #103
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
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    Damn idiot drivers.......
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    You just changed the entire scenario. How intellectually dishonest of you.

    THAT article you posted makes the city department of transportation responsible for creating hazardous driving conditions... in THOSE 6 CITIES.

    The red light camera, in an of itself, is not the cause of the less safe conditions at the intersections that have had yellow light duration shortened.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  4. #104
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    You just changed the entire scenario. How intellectually dishonest of you.
    No.....you placed all the blame on the "idiot drivers"......I threw in the enlightenment for free......

    THAT article you posted makes the city department of transportation responsible for creating hazardous driving conditions... in THOSE 6 CITIES.
    Those 6 Cities......where the yellow light times were looked at.

    The red light camera, in an of itself, is not the cause of the less safe conditions at the intersections that have had yellow light duration shortened.
    Of course.......even if the yellow light time was 1 second.....its all the "idiot driver's" fault.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    No.....you placed all the blame on the "idiot drivers"......I threw in the enlightenment for free......



    Those 6 Cities......where the yellow light times were looked at.



    Of course.......even if the yellow light time was 1 second.....its all the "idiot driver's" fault.
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    Really? Is this all you have to come back with?

    Your original argument was that the red light cameras create rear end collisions.
    Then you decided to add an element of areas where yellow light durations have been reduced by a city's department of transportation in order to nab more money.
    You see, in this situation, the red light camera system is still what it is, it is the shortening of the yellow light duration that is causing the "harm".

    In a situation where a red light camera has been placed in an intersection and a person reacts over-cautiously because of it, It is not the fault of the red light camera. It is the fault of a poor decision on an individual driving a motor vehicle. And this situation holds true if no other changes except the installation of a red light camera system are made. By adding the yellow light reduction factor in, you are essentially moving the goal posts in order to make your point. Yet your original point is still not made, as the red light system, itself, is not the cause of the decreased traffic safety at these intersections.


    Don't worry, I find that it is pretty standard for people to excuse an incident that is an individual's responsibility in favor of blaming someone else for the problem. I think that is what is wrong with society today.

    The fact is, and refute it however you'd like to try.... A red light camera system is not responsible for a person's poor judgement in slowing down too late/rapidly at a red light. Nor is it responsible for a person slowing down and stopping with several seconds of yellow light to spare, causing the person behind them to rear end them because that person was ready to move through the intersection on a yellow light. These are all choices of the individuals involved, and not the fault of a mechanical system, of which the knowledge of this system may have had a FACTOR in the decision making process.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #106
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    ^^ There is the soundbyte again.

    Yet still no explanation to what Ikari THINKS this means, in a legal sense.

    Also, I noticed you added the word "unlawful" to the text of the 4th amendment.
    I wasn't quoting the 4th directly. Try a bit of honesty in your arguments please. Also, any rational and intelligent individual knows what I wrote and what it means. It means that if you want to search me or take any of my stuff before you can intercede you first must have probable cause. Jesus Christ, I can't believe this has to be explained to an adult.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #107
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Its not a search of your person......

    I think the argument you were actually looking for was "It is an unreasonable seizure"

    Do I have to make your arguments for you?

    Hint: Probable cause is not always needed for the government to act. The text of the 4th says "unreasonable search and seizure" then mentions that no warrants shall be issued except upon probable cause. Don't string the two together. For a police officer to make a traffic stop, he/she requires "REASONABLE SUSPICION" (opposed to "unreasonable" which would be a violation of the 4th).
    You are searching my person if you want to determine that I am drunk. If I show signs of being drunk observed by the police, that's one thing. They are well within their power to pull me over. If I do not, then they have no rightful reason to pull me over.

    You don't have to make my arguments for me because then the arguments would be dumb. So please keep your hands off. Jesus, now the police even want to take our ideas and thinking processes.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #108
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Ive arrested over 200+ DWI Offenders. Ive NEVER had someone be charged nearly 10,000 bucks.

    One's private attorney fees are not the problem of the state.
    That's because you want to be dishonest about it. Even without attorney, you can get up to 6 or 7 thousand dollars. While an attorney may not be the "problem of the state", it is still money which is spent by someone arrested for DUI. Try a bit of honesty please.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #109
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles

    Those are DUI Laws for Florida. To me, it seems too lenient. I do not want drunk drivers around me. People drive like idiots enough as it is! I live in a college town and know plenty of people who drive after drinking. I won't drive around 2 am on a Friday or a Saturday. Any day that is a drinking holiday, such as cinco de mayo and st patricks day, I won't drive at any time. I think we should do anything we can to keep drunks off the road. I also agree that people shouldn't text while driving but that is harder to control. Someone could be looking at their GPS or ignoring a call or heck even just looking down at your lap momentarily.
    Then you really aren't about safety. Texting and driving IS more dangerous than drunk driving.

    Once again, drunks may cause 29% of traffic accidents - but sober idiots cause the other 71% - including people who text while driving.

    The fact that you dismiss texting and driving because "it's harder to control" proves you're only out to get some people because propaganda has declared them criminals, while you dismiss people who are more dangerous (and probably more prevalent) because you think that law would be inconvenient.

    Get those people (you disdain them); but those more dangerous people, well...we don't have time for them. Besides, they're like the people I know, so they can't be criminals (until they kill someone).

    Drinking and driving is bad. Yes. No one denies that. But your attitude and our present laws don't reflect a true concern for safety...

  10. #110
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    Re: Should DUI checkpoint and red light cam apps be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
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    Damn idiot drivers.......
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    I love people who pose as "small government" on one hand, but who applaud big government on the other.

    The yellow light timing is something that is supposed to be set by safety standards based on posted speed limit and size of the intersection. A four-way stop between two two-way streets where the speed limit is 30 mph, would have a much shorter yellow time than an Y-intersection between three four-lane street with a 40 mph speed limit.

    If the various city departments are violating the safety standards, then this would be a huge issue. If they're still within safety ranges, then there really isn't a big deal.

    I would, however, argue that the local government is messing with something potentially dangerous. People who drive routes on a daily basis have a tendency to drive drive by feel (whether they should or not), changing things on them can create dangerous situations - unless you're posting a warning. If you post warnings that things have changed, people actually have a tendency to be safer.

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