View Poll Results: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

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Thread: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

  1. #231
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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfons View Post
    HaHaHa,

    both Marxism and Communism are foundations of leftism!
    So all people on the left are Marxists and/or communists?
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    At least enough not to conflate pro-constitutional, pro-freedom people on the left with communism or authoritarian Marxism.
    Hello?

    If the people on the left were "pro-constituitonal", they'd oppose:

    Federally funded social welfare programs, social security, medicaid, medicare, public education, public broadcasting funding, and rouhly a trillion dollars in annual spending by the federal government.

    Welcome to the Constitution of the United States...it LIMITS government.

    The Germa government puts irrational restrictions on political speech, as to the other quasi-totalitarian pretend "democracies" around the world.

    Let us know when you can speak freely about the Holocaust, even to the point of being silly enough to deny it, if that's your wish, and then we can discuss the role of a constitution in protecting freedom, not limting the people.

  3. #233
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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Wonderful argument.

    Too bad is has nothing to do with the truth. The socialist government of Gorbachev (Nobel Peice Prize Winner) LIED about Chernobyl. Not to mention it's wonderful invention of C4 Toys For Tots in Afghanistan. The socialist government of China LIED about SARS, and it lied to it's own people about the hazards of HIV. The ban of the socialist dominated UN against DDT usage has caused the deaths of roughly three million poeple every year by malaria, that's a hundred million over the time the ban's been implemented, in itself.

    When one discusses the MURDERS caused by socialism - all occuring in the 20th century, do you really believe the proper counter argument is alleged neglectful abuses from an earlier century? Do you honestly beleive the death toll among children chasing bobbins in a 19th century textile factory came anywhere close to the 150 million or so deliberately exterminated by the socialists this last 100 years?
    I think you are attacking a strawman here. I believe nobody in this thread (with maybe one or two exceptions) disagrees with you that extreme leftism is responsible for these murders and deserves to be condemned. What people, including myself, take offense by, is your broad-brush attempt at lumping all kinds of very different ideologies together under the "socialist" label, many of which are not actually socialist.

    Social democracy has nothing to do with communism. Liberalism has nothing to do with communism. Even most brands of democratic socialism have nothing to do with communism.

    Using the "socialist" label as you and Alfons do (and your idols la Beck) is blurring important distinctions with the purpose of smearing legitimate political competitors. It's just as dishonest and disrespectful as labelling Republicans "Nazis" or "fascists" in a broad-brush attempt.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    So all people on the left are Marxists and/or communists?
    If not that, there's something else wrong with them. They see a thing they believe needs doing and their inevitable answer is to take money from someone else to finance their dream. Hardly indicative of adult behavior.

    It's certainly not an American viewpoint.

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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I think you are attacking a strawman here. I believe nobody in this thread (with maybe one or two exceptions) disagrees with you that extreme leftism is responsible for these murders and deserves to be condemned. What people, including myself, take offense by, is your broad-brush attempt at lumping all kinds of very different ideologies together under the "socialist" label, many of which are not actually socialist.

    Social democracy has nothing to do with communism. Liberalism has nothing to do with communism. Even most brands of democratic socialism have nothing to do with communism.

    Using the "socialist" label as you and Alfons do (and your idols la Beck) is blurring important distinctions with the purpose of smearing legitimate political competitors. It's just as dishonest and disrespectful as labelling Republicans "Nazis" or "fascists" in a broad-brush attempt.
    yes, what the people on the Left love avoiding is the consequences of their religion. They refuse to accept that it's PEOPLE who control the power of government and that PEOPLE seek profit, even when they don't use the evil "P" word.

    Too bad for you people. The truth stands out. Socialism is immoral, evil, and anti-freedom, and as such it must be opposed by all who value their own freedom.

    There's nothing legitimate about socialism. It makes the minority the slave of the majority. Ask anyone who doesn't desire to pay taxes for the unconstitutional programs the socialists have imposed on the United States.
    Last edited by Mayor Snorkum; 05-20-11 at 12:02 PM.

  6. #236
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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Hello?

    If the people on the left were "pro-constituitonal", they'd oppose:

    Federally funded social welfare programs, social security, medicaid, medicare, public education, public broadcasting funding, and rouhly a trillion dollars in annual spending by the federal government.
    If these things were unconstitutional, the Supreme Court would have ruled them illegal. Since this has not happened, they are not unconstitutional, apparently. But since you seem to be an expert in constitutional law, please enlighten us. Are you a professor?

    Also, there are other constitutions based on the values of freedom and liberty, besides the American Constitution.

    Welcome to the Constitution of the United States...it LIMITS government.
    Yes, *limits*. Not *abolishes*.

    You are fine to disagree with certain government actions, because you believe they go too far. That's democracy! But please don't smear people who disagree with you by calling them mass murderers and genociders, ok? Maybe then they'll return this respect.

    The Germa government puts irrational restrictions on political speech, as to the other quasi-totalitarian pretend "democracies" around the world.
    You mean like the American government, that detains and tortures innocent people, denying them fair trials and kidnapping them from all over the world, thanks to the Patriot Act? You have nerves lecturing others about freedom and democracy ...

    Let us know when you can speak freely about the Holocaust, even to the point of being silly enough to deny it, if that's your wish, and then we can discuss the role of a constitution in protecting freedom, not limting the people.
    I feel no inclination to deny the Holocaust happened, do you?

    Banning hate speech is not a violation of freedom. It is a constitutionally necessary protection of the freedom of minorities.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  7. #237
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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    If not that, there's something else wrong with them. They see a thing they believe needs doing and their inevitable answer is to take money from someone else to finance their dream. Hardly indicative of adult behavior.

    It's certainly not an American viewpoint.
    You are thinking a little too much in black/white terms here, don't you think? Everybody who is not a right-winger does not just disagree with you, but is evil, in your eyes. And they deserve condemnation, not respectful counter-arguments. Seems you don't quite understand what freedom is, especially the freedom to respectfully disagree.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    See my explanation above about racism. I don't think "the right" in general breeds racism.

    But I do believe that ideologies which actively affirm racist impulses are usually right-wing, as for example Nazism. But that's not true the other way, I do not believe that the right wing in general is racist.
    What about the racist impulse in America that says black people can't cut it on their own so the government has to implement a preferential hiring policy called "Affirmative Action"? That's left-wing racism, there.

    How about the racist impulses that make white American english speaking males the only class of people in the nation which can be discriminated against. Again, this establishment of racial preferences is driven by leftists.

  9. #239
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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    yes, what the people on the Left love avoiding is the consequences of their religion. They refuse to accept that it's PEOPLE who control the power of government and that PEOPLE seek profit, even when they don't use the evil "P" word.

    Too bad for you people. The truth stands out. Socialism is immoral, evil, and anti-freedom, and as such it must be opposed by all who value their own freedom.
    I said that before, but in Germany, it were the at that time even Marxist Social Democrats who were the strongest supporter of freedom, liberty and constitutional order: They established the free Weimar Republic in 1919, crushed the communist revolutionaries, battled the monarchist authoritarians and were the only party to vote against Hitler's Enabling Act in 1933. And after 1945, the Social Democrats defended constitutional democracy in the West against the Soviets and commies in East Germany.

    You really need to read a little history and get your facts straight. Then you wouldn't spout such absurd generalizations.

    The problem are not people on the left in general. The problem are people who hate freedom and constitutional order. And those exist both on left and right.

    There's nothing legitimate about socialism. It makes the minority the slave of the majority. Ask anyone who doesn't desire to pay taxes for the unconstitutional programs the socialists have imposed on the United States.
    Taxes are necessary in any state. To determine how large they should be, and who has to pay how much, is the job of a free, constitutional system. You can vote for those politicians and parties which reflect your ideas about taxes. But when others disagree, you have no right to condemn them, as long as they too respect the constitutional order, but you have to present good counter-arguments.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Should Socialism - Communism be condemned like Nazim?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    You are thinking a little too much in black/white terms here, don't you think?
    No.

    The man with the itty-bitty cancerous speck of a mole wants it removed for good reason.

    Carcinoma socialism isn't anything to play around with.

    Just in case you missed it, it's the socialist agenda in the United States that caused the Great Depression and the Great Recession. Without that government interference in the marketplace, the word "Great" could never have been appended to what would otherwise have been starndard market corrections.

    Everybody who is not a right-winger does not just disagree with you, but is evil, in your eyes.
    No. Everyone who isn't a libertarian, who asks the government to do something outside the scope of what a government is suposed to do, protect the nation from rude strangers and protect the people from physical assualt and theft, is demonstrating a kernal of evil which, if allowed to grow, becomes destructive.

    It's not the government's job to control what the people say to each other, not even when it's as embarassing as a total fool denying the Holocaust or pretending Neil Armstrong didn't land on the moon.

    It's not the government's job to provide everyone with jobs, nor is it the government's job to control who is hired by private companies. It's what the word "private" means. (Naturally, and desperate leftists always throw this one up, so it's necessary to put a condom on them by stating that this discussion is limited to people who have obtained their majority.)

    It's not the government's job to know who owns a gun, even. People who use guns in a criminal fashion must, of course, be prosecuted, but owning them should never be a crime or regulated, not even to the point of registering gun ownership or licensing gun ownership.

    Seems you don't quite understand what freedom is, especially the freedom to respectfully disagree.
    Yes, the real libertarians don't know the meaning of the word "freedom", right?

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