View Poll Results: Do agree to Romney's justification to the Maryland health care plan?

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  • Yes, and I'm a conservative.

    1 8.33%
  • Yes, and I'm a liberal.

    0 0%
  • Yes, and I'm an independent / third party.

    2 16.67%
  • No, and I'm a conservative.

    4 33.33%
  • No, and I'm a liberal.

    2 16.67%
  • No, and I'm an independent / third party

    3 25.00%
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Thread: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

  1. #11
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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    I believe that the plan is a example of federalism - I don't think it's a good enough justification of the plan itself, if Romney is going to defend his conservative credentials. The main criticism of Obamacare is the individual mandate that requires everyone to buy insurance. RomneyCare shares that same feature (and in fact Romney himself defended the mandate brilliantly), one which a majority of conservatives would definitely have a problem with.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Absolutely.

    The states are supposed to control and regulate the insurance business that takes place within their borders. I may not agree with the plan (especially on the federal level), but he was justified in signing that plan into law. That's what states are supposed to do. Make insurance mandates and regulations that make sense for their population. One of my biggest beefs with the federally passed bill, is just that. It's federal, when states don't need the feds to regulate healthcare for them. They already posses that power, and essentially they are giving it up.
    What he had no justification for was the provision that state tax refunds would not be paid to people who could not show health insurance coverage.

    That's inexusable and that socialist will never get the Mayor's vote.

  3. #13
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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I believe that the plan is a example of federalism - I don't think it's a good enough justification of the plan itself, if Romney is going to defend his conservative credentials. The main criticism of Obamacare is the individual mandate that requires everyone to buy insurance. RomneyCare shares that same feature (and in fact Romney himself defended the mandate brilliantly), one which a majority of conservatives would definitely have a problem with.
    Right, but the main difference between Romney's plan and the Democratic plan is that Romney's plan was done on the state level while the Democratic plan was done on the federal level. Which is a big difference when we talk about separation of powers between the federal government and the state governmnets, which is something conservatives like to make lines of distinction on.

    For example, one justification of the individual mandate for health insurance given by liberals is that we have an individual mandate for car insurance. However, the retort from conservatives is that the individual mandate for car insurance is done and regulated by state governments, not the federal government. Of which there is a point.

    So according to that he may still have his conservative credentials. After all, there's a big difference between saying "the less of the federal government there is, the better," and saying "the less of all government there is, the better." Romney may be more of the former than the latter.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Right, but the main difference between Romney's plan and the Democratic plan is that Romney's plan was done on the state level while the Democratic plan was done on the federal level. Which is a big difference when we talk about separation of powers between the federal government and the state governmnets, which is something conservatives like to make lines of distinction on.

    For example, one justification of the individual mandate for health insurance given by liberals is that we have an individual mandate for car insurance. However, the retort from conservatives is that the individual mandate for car insurance is done and regulated by state governments, not the federal government. Of which there is a point.

    So according to that he may still have his conservative credentials. After all, there's a big difference between saying "the less of the federal government there is, the better," and saying "the less of all government there is, the better." Romney may be more of the former than the latter.
    Yes, I agree that the law is an example of federalism - however conservatives could and would still argue that an individual mandate, even at the state level, would be unconstitutional (or at the very least a gross betrayal of conservative values of limited government).
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 05-13-11 at 08:16 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    For example, one justification of the individual mandate for health insurance given by liberals is that we have an individual mandate for car insurance. However, the retort from conservatives is that the individual mandate for car insurance is done and regulated by state governments, not the federal government. Of which there is a point.
    As usual, the lefties have their heads in the Proctologist Position.

    The reason owners of cars are required to carry insurance is to protect others from the financial damage a car is capable of inflicting on others. The reasoning, of course, cannot be applied to people and their health insurance. A man choosing not to carry health insurance should not be denied his freedom to not get health care he can't afford.

    Life's tough when you're stupid, they say. Life should be even tougher for people too stupid to buy their own insurance.

    What's most important is that no one else should be held up at gun point to provide that stupid person with health coverage. The fear of getting sick and dying is an excellent motivator for people to get off their dead asses and find work.

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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Yes, I agree that the law is an example of federalism - however conservatives could and would still argue that an individual mandate, even at the state level, would be unconstitutional (or at the very least a gross betrayal of conservative values of limited government).
    They will find a legalistic reason to oppose something they dislike for moral reasons

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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    They will find a legalistic reason to oppose something they dislike for moral reasons
    True. But doesn't anyone? After all law is merely the formalization of social mores and customs into legal code.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    no. The fact that a State CAN do something stupid doesn't mean that it should. Romney got up on stage yesterday, loaded a shotgun, and blasted himself in the face.

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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no. The fact that a State CAN do something stupid doesn't mean that it should. Romney got up on stage yesterday, loaded a shotgun, and blasted himself in the face.
    I don't know. I think it shows he's a moderate Republican. And because he's a moderate Republican he's the one most that moderate Democrats and independents will favor when going up against President Obama.

    But, of course, that doesn't mean he'll be able to get past the Republican primary.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  10. #20
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    Re: Do believe that Romney's Maryland health care plan is an example of federalism?

    Im against obamacare and romney care...but in the end push comes to shove I would much prefer states doing it...

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