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Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

Should Military Chaplains be allowed to perform Same Sex marriages?

  • Total voters
    38
Yes, there is no harm in allowing them to do this.
 
Absolutely. I think any chaplain, preacher or justice of the peace, etc., should be able to perform SSM anywhere, frankly, because denying homosexuals the right to marry is unconstitutional in my opinion. Therefore, states which forbid SSM are violating the constitution, and the federal government is obligated to force compliance, just as it did when blacks were unconstitutionally segregated and denied the rights that white people enjoyed.
 
Why is the USA military allowed to have chaplins? Isn't that counter to the first amendment?

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TOJ said:
Why is the USA military allowed to have chaplins? Isn't that counter to the first amendment?

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No, as long as all faiths are represented (or at least all faiths are served equally).
 
The military having Chaplains doesn't violate the First Amendment. There's no requirement to attend services for servicemen, but if you do choose to attend you can find just about any religious service you'd like on a military installation. Now, if the military told their chaplains that they could not perform same-sex marraiges if they wanted to then that might violate the first amendment.
 
I've never served, and so know nothing about military life, nor am I a man of God in the professional sense, but I would think that if the military directs a chaplain to perform an SSM cermeony, and that chaplain objects on biblical grounds, that he should be allowed his right to object without facing expulsion from the military.

There are pastors who counsel in favor of abortion, and there are pastors willing to perform SSM ceremonies. I say if the regular guy objects, he should face no consequences and the military should farm the job out.

PS - This assumes we're talking about ceremonies taking place in states that recognize SSM. Elsewhere, a hell no suffices.
 
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TOJ said:
Why is the USA military allowed to have chaplins? Isn't that counter to the first amendment?

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Military chaplains are awesome and do very good work in the military and are absolutely a positive thing. They are not counter to the first amendment in that having chaplains is not establishing a religion. And any one who wants to bitch about the nightly prayer on ships is going to get my boot up their ass.
 
Redress said:
Military chaplains are awesome and do very good work in the military and are absolutely a positive thing. They are not counter to the first amendment in that having chaplains is not establishing a religion. And any one who wants to bitch about the nightly prayer on ships is going to get my boot up their ass.
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I've heard that USA high schools are not allowed to have a prayer at any of their various functions. How is that different?

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TOJ said:
I've heard that USA high schools are not allowed to have a prayer at any of their various functions. How is that different?

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Off the top of my head, High School is required until 16. Military is strictly voluntary. The evening prayer is a good thing in the Navy. I can still hear the voice of the Catholic chaplain on the Eisenhower saying "and all of Ike says good night". It was somehow comforting.
 
TOJ said:
I've heard that USA high schools are not allowed to have a prayer at any of their various functions. How is that different?

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I think that's an ACLU thing, and a chicken-****-HS-principal thing. Not real law, but fear of litigation.

Ah, but ain't that America?
 
LuckyDan said:
I think that's an ACLU thing, and a chicken-****-HS-principal thing. Not real law, but fear of litigation.

Ah, but ain't that America?
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I think banning prayer in schools is idiotic, but that's just me. However, so is forcing people to participate in prayer.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I think banning prayer in schools is idiotic, but that's just me. However, so is forcing people to participate in prayer.
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Prayer in school is not only legal, it is protected. What is unconstitutional is the school leading students in prayer.
 
StillBallin75 said:
No, as long as all faiths are represented (or at least all faiths are served equally).
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So how many Wiccan military chaplains are allowed to serve those that follow that religion in the USA military?

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Chaplains are not priests (or imams, or rabbis), they are counselors. I imagine they are versed in wiccan and would do further research for an individual. IIRC, chaplains do not need to be a specific religion to provide guidence regarding that religion.

Dunno.
 
ecofarm said:
Chaplains are not priests (or imams, or rabbis), they are counselors. I imagine they are versed in wiccan and would do further research for an individual. IIRC, chaplains do not need to be a specific religion to provide guidence regarding that religion.

Dunno.
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When I was in the military they were Preists, Rabbi's and Preachers and yes you did not have to be of that religion for them to council you or comfort you.

Whether SSM should be allowed or not aside. I have a question.
How do you allows "SOME" chaplans to perform SSM that want too and not have the rest perform it. Another words if Im stationed in Guam and my Chaplan does not and the chaplan in California does. I cant but troops assigned there can. The military doesnt and has not ever operated like that.
In the military its all or nothing, thats the way it has to be. General orders are just that, orders for everyone. You cant have one base doing what another base is not, that would be a drag on moral.
The military is not about individuals its about the entire force.
 
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ecofarm said:
Chaplains are not priests (or imams, or rabbis), they are counselors. I imagine they are versed in wiccan and would do further research for an individual. IIRC, chaplains do not need to be a specific religion to provide guidence regarding that religion.

Dunno.
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So why was Don Larsen, a former Pentecostal military chaplain who converted to Wiccan, stripped of his chaplaincy and discharged from military service when he applied to be a Wiccan chaplain?


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Because other events around the same time proved him unfit?

Dunno.
 
TOJ said:
I've heard that USA high schools are not allowed to have a prayer at any of their various functions. How is that different?

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In my day, in places, prayer was forced.
We have come a long way. Now its an optional or voluntarily thing, to the best of my knowledge.
 
ecofarm said:
Because other events around the same time proved him unfit?

Dunno.
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And to what events do you refer or are your just making baseless allegations?

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Redress said:
Thread that brought this on: http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/98727-navy-perform-same-sex-marriages.html

Note that I use the term "allowed", not "forced". No chaplain would be forced to perform such a service, but allowed if they chose to.
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there have been quite a few meetings and seminars - situational awareness and so on to emphasize the new rules and make sure personnel are all properly informed.

According to my husband they are "allowed" and they are not being "forced" - they can say no. Chaplains are the only members of any service unit who can deny service to a gay couple. If anyone else denies any assistance, service or promotion, etc - big big trouble.

I'm proud of my husband - he's going with the flow and, in fact, he's been complaining about people who - in these situational awareness setups - don't 'get' the new rules.
 
TOJ said:
So how many Wiccan military chaplains are allowed to serve those that follow that religion in the USA military?

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Ideally, Wiccan chaplains should be allowed to serve, and chaplains of other faiths can hold interfaith services (so, for example, a rabbi can still serve the religious needs of a Wiccan). That being said, I remember a while back an Army chaplain was booted for converting to Wicca. That's wrong, IMO.
 
The thought is strange to me, and for some reason something inside of me wants to say no... but sure whynot, leave it up to the states.
I dunno... it feels like the military looses man points
 
celticwar17 said:
The thought is strange to me, and for some reason something inside of me wants to say no... but sure whynot, leave it up to the states.
I dunno... it feels like the military looses man points
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Man points are overrated. Although the thought that performing same-sex marriages will somehow substantively impact the military's manliness is laughable.
 
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