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Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

Should Military Chaplains be allowed to perform Same Sex marriages?

  • Total voters
    38
TOJ, I have to log off now. I'll be back tomorrow morning, and rest assured that I do indeed have 18 more links ready to go. So, if you really do want to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a human being can actually operate a keyboard while having **** for brains then keep it up. I'll smack you down again tomorrow.
 
mac said:
no doma only really applies in specific cases....military members being one of them. further, said marriages could not be performed on federal instillations like military bases.
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If you mean it only applies to SSM, you are correct(but are making an entirely irrelevant comment that does not negate mine). If you mean it any other way, you are wrong. Defense of Marriage Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The following excerpts are the main provisions of the Act:[7]

Section 2. Powers reserved to the states
No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.
Section 3. Definition of marriage
In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word 'marriage' means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word 'spouse' refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.
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ok, i see the point redress and rogue are making and concur. i do believe that chaplains would be barred fromperforming ssm until doma is repealed though. regardless, as you've pointed out....marriage and dependant benifits would be denied regardless.
 
I think military chaplains should be allowed to preform same sex marriages in states that allow it.
 
mac said:
no doma only really applies in specific cases....military members being one of them. further, said marriages could not be performed on federal instillations like military bases.
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Why not? DADT should be officially repealed around August (according to what my husband and I are being told). Military members who get married on military installations still have to get a marriage license from the state they are in. If the state allows same sex marriage, then I don't see why it should be a big deal if they have the wedding on base or not. It isn't against any laws, not once DADT is officially gone.

And the Navy has said that they can have their weddings on military installations, btw.
 
mac said:
ok, i see the point redress and rogue are making and concur. i do believe that chaplains would be barred fromperforming ssm until doma is repealed though. regardless, as you've pointed out....marriage and dependant benifits would be denied regardless.
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That isn't what the Navy is putting out. They probably won't be allowed to perform them until DADT is completely repealed, but not DOMA, since, currently there isn't any timeline for the repeal of DOMA.
 
Alfons said:
In a couple of years lefties will throw everybody to prison who dare to deny that only gay marriage is a true marriage.
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Moderator's Warning:
Please do not troll this thread
 
Redress said:
Thread that brought this on: http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/98727-navy-perform-same-sex-marriages.html

Note that I use the term "allowed", not "forced". No chaplain would be forced to perform such a service, but allowed if they chose to.
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Redress,

if a chaplain will perform a such 'service' he would became automatically no Christian and no Priest anymore, the Holy Bible says clearly against Homosexuality, therefore a such 'marriage' will be performed automatically by a non-Christian, therefore it will be not church marriage anymore and without any practically consequences.
 
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roguenuke said:
That isn't what the Navy is putting out. They probably won't be allowed to perform them until DADT is completely repealed, but not DOMA, since, currently there isn't any timeline for the repeal of DOMA.
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afraid i have to disagree. i am in the navy and that's not what we've been told. even with repeal of dadt...the military will not recognize ssm. nothing has been pu out about chaplains and marriage on base.
 
Alfons said:
Redress,

if a chaplain will perform a such 'service' he would became automatically no Christian and no Priest anymore, the Holy Bible says clearly against Homosexuality, therefore a such 'marriage' will be performed automatically by a non-Christian, therefore it will be not church marriage anymore and without any practically consequences.
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who says the chaplain has to be a Christian?
 
mac said:
afraid i have to disagree. i am in the navy and that's not what we've been told. even with repeal of dadt...the military will not recognize ssm. nothing has been pu out about chaplains and marriage on base.
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Whether chaplains perform SSMs or not has nothing to do with whether the military will recognize the marriage(it won't). All this is is that the chaplains will perform the ceremony.
 
Redress said:
Whether chaplains perform SSMs or not has nothing to do with whether the military will recognize the marriage(it won't). All this is is that the chaplains will perform the ceremony.
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They'd have to be authorized to do so (they are required to follow regulations 24/7), to do it in the performance of their duties....it's not likely to be allowed on base without a DOMA repeal since all military Chapels are on federal property, and even if done "outside" their normal duties, they are still required to follow orders. All that being met, I would say they should be allowed to do whatever their beliefs, regulations and the laws allow.
 
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mac said:
They'd have to be authorized to do so, to do it in the performance of their duties....it's not likely to be allowed on base without a DOMA repeal since all military Chapels are on federal property, and even if done "outside" their normal duties, they are still required to follow orders. All that being met, I would say they should be allowed to do whatever their beliefs, regulations and the laws allow.
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No, no, and no. The civil ceremony(which is what chaplains perform) is not a legal thing, it is a ceremony and no more.
 
Redress said:
No, no, and no. The civil ceremony(which is what chaplains perform) is not a legal thing, it is a ceremony and no more.
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That doesn't matter and is not exactly true. The marriage license has to be "signed off" and that is normally done by a Priest/Pastor. Unless they were legally married by a JOP first. Still, it's a ceremony that's not likely to happen on base anytime soon.
 
Homosexuals already have ceremonial weddings even if they aren't legally contracted. I don't see what's wrong with allowing chaplains to preform a ceremony or signing a legal marriage contract in areas where gay marriage is legal.
 
digsbe said:
Homosexuals already have ceremonial weddings even if they aren't legally contracted. I don't see what's wrong with allowing chaplains to preform a ceremony or signing a legal marriage contract in areas where gay marriage is legal.
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The problem is that Military bases are little chunks of the US gov, not the state. Military persons are never absolved from federal law regardless of where they are, and....Military Chaplains are officers in the military and must follow regulations.
 
mac said:
That doesn't matter and is not exactly true. The marriage license has to be "signed off" and that is normally done by a Priest/Pastor. Unless they were legally married by a JOP first. Still, it's a ceremony that's not likely to happen on base anytime soon.
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For clarification on this the JOP would be the one to sign off on the certificate if a Minister is not the one to do so.
 
mac said:
The problem is that Military bases are little chunks of the US gov, not the state. Military persons are never absolved from federal law regardless of where they are, and....Military Chaplains are officers in the military and must follow regulations.
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From what I understand though, it's no longer illegal to be a homosexual and in the military. The federal government doesn't authorize marriage licenses. If the two soldiers are from a state that will recognize their union I have no problem with a chaplain preforming the ceremony and seeing that it gets authorized in that state. If it's not legal in their home state I don't have a problem with a chaplain by his/her own will preforming a ceremony.
 
mac said:
The problem is that Military bases are little chunks of the US gov, not the state. Military persons are never absolved from federal law regardless of where they are, and....Military Chaplains are officers in the military and must follow regulations.
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Chaplains are exempt.
Not just musing that they are - I know they are.

They are the only group in the military who are exempt from 'equal treatment' or whatever you might want to say.
 
TOJ said:
So why was Don Larsen, a former Pentecostal military chaplain who converted to Wiccan, stripped of his chaplaincy and discharged from military service when he applied to be a Wiccan chaplain?


.
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Larsen was in the process of changing chaplaincies. When they called his Christian endorser in order to change chaplaincies(which would have made Wicca a recognized group) the church that endorsed him quickly revoked his endorsement. In essence, the military didn't strip him of his chaplaincy because it wanted to. It had to because of regulation regarding the endorsement of chaplains and bureaucratic red tape. It wasnt a religious matter. It was bureaucratic. In essence, this shows that being a chaplain is kind of like a constant BA. You can change your major whenever you want as long as the institution allows it. You're not bound to any major. Just whatever bureaucratic red tape there is.
 
mac said:
afraid i have to disagree. i am in the navy and that's not what we've been told. even with repeal of dadt...the military will not recognize ssm. nothing has been pu out about chaplains and marriage on base.
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I'm in the Navy reserves and my husband is active duty Navy. I never said the military will recognize SSMs until after DOMA is repealed. However, that does not in any way legally prevent a Navy chaplain from performing a SSM on base and the Navy has said that they can perform same sex marriages on base.

Navy would allow gay weddings on base - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times

“DOMA does not limit the type of religious ceremonies a chaplain may perform in a chapel on a military installation. Chaplains are authorized to perform religious ceremonies consistent with the practices of the chaplain’s faith group in chapels on military installations.”
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