View Poll Results: Should Military Chaplains be allowed to perform Same Sex marriages?

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  • Yes, anywhere

    25 52.08%
  • Yes, in states that allow same sex marraige

    8 16.67%
  • No, never

    13 27.08%
  • Unsure, don't know, or other

    2 4.17%
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Thread: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    Thats the fig leaf they used.

    Do you know of any reliable source that shows there are Wiccan Chaplain even now?

    .
    Did you read the entire article? Obviously not.

    When the Sacred Well Congregation applied July 31 to become Larsen's new endorser, the Army initially cited a minor bureaucratic obstacle: It could not find a copy of his previous endorsement from the Chaplaincy of Full Gospel Churches, a Dallas-based association of Pentecostal churches.

    The following day, a senior Army chaplain telephoned the Chaplaincy to ask for the form.

    Within hours, the Pentecostal group sent Larsen an urgent e-mail saying it had received a "strange call" from the Army Chief of Chaplains office. The caller "mentioned that a Donald M. Larsen ... was requesting a change-over ... to Wiccans," the e-mail said. "Please communicate with this office, as we do not believe it is you."

    In his reply, Larsen pleaded that the Chaplaincy not cancel his endorsement until he could complete the switch, but the Chaplaincy immediately severed its ties to Larsen. The Sacred Well Congregation could not renew his papers because it was not yet an official endorser. Larsen was ordered to cease functioning immediately as a chaplain and pulled from Iraq.

    Lt. Col. Randall Dolinger, the Army Chief of Chaplains spokesman, denied any discrimination: "What you're really dealing with is more of a personal drama, what one person has been through and the choices he's made. Plus, the fact that the military does have Catch-22s."

    Brig. Gen. Cecil Richardson, the Air Force's deputy chief of chaplains, says there are simply too few Wiccans in the military to justify a full-time chaplain.
    Try a little honesty or maybe just reading the entire article? One person's opinions does not do away with the facts.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Equal treatment? They still have regulations...the only exemption for Chaplains is that they can not be ordered into combat or to do anything in direct violation of their religious beleifs. They are still military officers.
    Yes - they are military officers *with exemptions* in regard to some regulations.

    Just like my husband's a SFC but he functions with *certain exemptions* from the average SFC because of his specialty at present.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Thread that brought this on: http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...marriages.html

    Note that I use the term "allowed", not "forced". No chaplain would be forced to perform such a service, but allowed if they chose to.
    Most ordained religious ministers are able to preside over same sex marriage ceremonies even though they are not legally binding. So even though a same sex couple may not legally be able to marry, some go through the ceremony because they consider themselves married.

    So yes, I think military chaplains should be allowed to preside over same sex marriages, despite the legality of same sex marriages.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  4. #84
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yes - they are military officers *with exemptions* in regard to some regulations.

    Just like my husband's a SFC but he functions with *certain exemptions* from the average SFC because of his specialty at present.
    Well, other than what I've noted already, there are no such "exemptions" for Navy Chaplains. They gotta follow orders just like the rest of us.
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Well, other than what I've noted already, there are no such "exemptions" for Navy Chaplains. They gotta follow orders just like the rest of us.
    Them being in the military in itself is an exemptive policy.

    Them being allowed to choose whether or not they marry gays is another exemptive policy. . . it is *policy* - they've given siminars, training sessions and handouts that mark *exactly that*

    There is no debate to be had over this - the military has already decided . . . finito.
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Them being in the military in itself is an exemptive policy.

    Them being allowed to choose whether or not they marry gays is another exemptive policy. . . it is *policy* - they've given siminars, training sessions and handouts that mark *exactly that*

    There is no debate to be had over this - the military has already decided . . . finito.
    Possibly....it's not being advertised internally though. Links?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Did you read the entire article? Obviously not.
    If he had been converting to any of the major religions, they would have worked through the issue instead of discharging him.


    Try a little honesty or maybe just reading the entire article? One person's opinions does not do away with the facts.
    Wow, you telling someone else to try being honest. That's rich.

    So do you know of any Wiccan Chaplains, previously or current? It certainly appears that the fact is there is still no Wiccan Chaplains in the USA military.

    .

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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Yes, they should be allowed to do so if they so choose.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #89
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    If he had been converting to any of the major religions, they would have worked through the issue instead of discharging him.
    Your ignorance on this issue is starting to show. The military doesn't recognize major religions. It recognizes groups. That's why there are 100+ recognized religious groups within the military and not "Islam" or "Judaism". With that said, I'll show you why you're wrong. The military has already recognized Wiccan groups before:

    An Army Controversy: Should the Witches Be Welcome?

    Two summers ago, the Army approved the Fort Hood Open Circle as its first official wiccan group. Without much fanfare, Fort Hood officials gave them a grassy campsite for their sacred ground, sanctioned their choice of high priestess -- even lent them an Army chaplain for moral support. Twice a week, the wiccans hold evening classes on subjects such as lunar cycles and the meaning of a coven. On full moons and eight sacred holidays, they and dozens of more witches from the surrounding area watch the high priestess lift her dagger over a ball of salt and honor the blessed earth. The events are posted on base and open to anyone interested. Except for a handful of letters from irate fundamentalist Christians in nearby Killeen, the rituals attracted little notice until recently.
    What's even more damaging your ridiculous assertion on Wicca is that his discharge is related to him trying to become a Wiccan chaplain, if that were even remotely how would this be possible:

    US ARMY CHAPLAIN'S HANDBOOK: EXCERPT ON WICCA

    The excerpt US Army prepared a book for the guidance of its chaplains when dealing with a soldier of a non-traditional faith. The book is: "Religious Requirements and Practices of Certain Selected Groups: A Handbook for Chaplains," and was first published in 1978. The 1990 edition appears to have gone out of print. However a new version was published in 2001 under the same name. The the U.S. Department of the Army is listed as as editor 1
    The military offers training to chaplains wishing to advise Wiccans. Why does it do that if it does not recognize a "non-major religion"? What's even more disturbing is that you're so ignorant of military regulation concerning religion that you think that conversion to any religion is grounds for a discharge.

    Wow, you telling someone else to try being honest. That's rich.

    So do you know of any Wiccan Chaplains, previously or current? It certainly appears that the fact is there is still no Wiccan Chaplains in the USA military.

    .
    I'm telling you to be honest because you provided a clearly edited account of what actually happened. I'm telling you to inform yourself because you have zero idea on what the military regulations are for chaplains. I'm telling you stop trolling around when there are people on this forum who are clearly more intelligent than you are and a lot better at doing basic research. But since you're still bitching about not having a "Wiccan Chaplain" that's explained by the fact that you have to be accredited by a USNAVY recognized program that teaches the laws, guidelines etc of whatever religion you're trying to become a chaplain in. Again, it's a matter of bureaucracy and red tape not discrimination. If it were, why would the military advice chaplains on Wicca at all?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-11-11 at 01:52 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #90
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Navy Times is not the definitive source on policy and according to DC area policy, no SSM will be performed....I'm pretty sure that's Navy wide...for now at least. Just got that clarified 15 minutes ago with a few phone calls.
    It says right in the article that this was a memo that updated chaplain policy and what I quoted was from a Navy spokesperson.

    And of course they can't be performed right now, since officially, DADT is still an active policy until around August, once all the training is done. At this current point in time, military personnel can still be discharged for being found out as gay. However, after DADT is officially repealed, then there is absolutely no reason why a Navy chaplain could not perform a same sex marriage on base, since same sex marriage, by itself, is in no way illegal, it is simply not legally recognized by the US government, yet. Once homosexuals can officially serve without fear of discharge, then it won't matter if they get married (even if it wouldn't be officially recognized by the federal government).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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