View Poll Results: Should Military Chaplains be allowed to perform Same Sex marriages?

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  • Yes, anywhere

    25 52.08%
  • Yes, in states that allow same sex marraige

    8 16.67%
  • No, never

    13 27.08%
  • Unsure, don't know, or other

    2 4.17%
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Thread: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

  1. #121
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And, again, there is no actual law, under the UCMJ or federal laws (once DADT is officially repealed completely), against either a chaplain presiding over a same sex wedding ceremony, nor from a person in the military marrying someone of the same sex. DOMA does not cover this. It may look wrong to some people, but there is no actual law against it as there are military rules and regulations against all the things that you mentioned, and they are in place for a good reason and are non-discriminatory rules/regulations.

    A military chaplain performing a wedding ceremony, or even signing a state marriage license for a same sex couple in no way forces the government or military to violate DOMA because the federal government nor military will have to recognize the marriage just because it was performed by a military officer. He is simply signing a state legal document, which he is authorized to do in the state that he is stationed in.
    Because a military officer can not violate federal law. DOMA is a federal law, and bans SSM. That's the answer. If DOMA is repealed, it's fair game.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Because a military officer can not violate federal law. DOMA is a federal law, and bans SSM. That's the answer. If DOMA is repealed, it's fair game.
    The military chaplain though is not violating any federal law by performing a ceremony and signing off for that ceremony on a state legal document. There is nothing in DOMA that prevents any federal officer from performing a same sex wedding nor signing a state marriage license for a same sex couples.

    If can point me to the exact wording of DOMA which would prohibits them, then do it.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #123
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The military chaplain though is not violating any federal law by performing a ceremony and signing off for that ceremony on a state legal document. There is nothing in DOMA that prevents any federal officer from performing a same sex wedding nor signing a state marriage license for a same sex couples.

    If can point me to the exact wording of DOMA which would prohibits them, then do it.
    Yes there is. You are wrong.

    DOMA defines marriage to be between one man and one woman. A federal officer (military officer) officiating a ceremony that violates that definition is violating DOMA. What the states laws are regarding SSM is absolutely immaterial for a military chaplain.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  4. #124
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Yes, in most South American countries, steroids that are controlled in the US are available over the counter.....at least they were when I was there last in the early 90's.
    Hmm. Give me a minute. I'll be right back...

  5. #125
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Yes there is. You are wrong.

    DOMA defines marriage to be between one man and one woman. A federal officer (military officer) officiating a ceremony that violates that definition is violating DOMA. What the states laws are regarding SSM is absolutely immaterial for a military chaplain.
    As I have said before, show me how from the exact wording of DOMA and with the laws/rules that a military chaplain faces when performing a wedding for any state, no matter what the sexes are of those involved in the wedding ceremony. Showing how a military chaplain is different using the laws is the way to prove me wrong. Just insisting that you are right doesn't cut it. I want to see why a military chaplain signing a state marriage license for someone is violating some rule or law.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #126
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    As I have said before, show me how from the exact wording of DOMA and with the laws/rules that a military chaplain faces when performing a wedding for any state, no matter what the sexes are of those involved in the wedding ceremony. Showing how a military chaplain is different using the laws is the way to prove me wrong. Just insisting that you are right doesn't cut it. I want to see why a military chaplain signing a state marriage license for someone is violating some rule or law.
    I just did. Section three of DOMA defines marriage as between a man and a woman. Google DOMA and read it, Rogue.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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  7. #127
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I just did. Section three of DOMA defines marriage as between a man and a woman. Google DOMA and read it, Rogue.
    I did, and it specifically references that it is to be used in determining the meaning of any Act of Congress or in any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various branches and bureaus of the government.

    Defense of Marriage Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So which of those things is a chaplain conducting a ceremony and signing a legal state document involved in? The military chaplain is not signing a federal legal document when he signs a marriage license, but rather a state legal document. As far as I see, it is none of those since there is no recognition being given for the marriage by the military. The chaplain is just conducting a ceremony and providing his signature to the license of the state that both participants on the license really did agree to wed each other, which he is authorized to do legally in each state he is stationed in.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #128
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I did, and it specifically references that it is to be used in determining the meaning of any Act of Congress or in any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various branches and bureaus of the government.

    Defense of Marriage Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So which of those things is a chaplain conducting a ceremony and signing a legal state document involved in? The military chaplain is not signing a federal legal document when he signs a marriage license, but rather a state legal document. As far as I see, it is none of those since there is no recognition being given for the marriage by the military. The chaplain is just conducting a ceremony and providing his signature to the license of the state that both participants on the license really did agree to wed each other, which he is authorized to do legally in each state he is stationed in.
    By doing so, the Military Officer is violating federal law by ignoring it's legal definition of marriage. It doesn't mean a damn thing who he's doing it for or where he's doing it. He's bound by that legal definition. I can't reword this anymore....if you don't get it, go ask a lawyer. JAG or one familiar with military regulations.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  9. #129
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    By doing so, the Military Officer is violating federal law by ignoring it's legal definition of marriage. It doesn't mean a damn thing who he's doing it for or where he's doing it. He's bound by that legal definition. I can't reword this anymore....if you don't get it, go ask a lawyer. JAG or one familiar with military regulations.
    The federal government is not bound legally to recognize the marriage. So where is the violation?

  10. #130
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    By doing so, the Military Officer is violating federal law by ignoring it's legal definition of marriage. It doesn't mean a damn thing who he's doing it for or where he's doing it. He's bound by that legal definition. I can't reword this anymore....if you don't get it, go ask a lawyer. JAG or one familiar with military regulations.
    It is only a legal definition in concern of federal recognition, which has nothing to do with state recognition. A chaplain is authorized to sign marriage licenses by each state, not the federal government, since states are the ones that issue marriage licenses, not the federal government. Each military member still has to request legal recognition for their marriage from their chain of command, which would not be given to a same sex couple, no matter who signed their marriage license, due to DOMA.

    I really just can't wait til DOMA goes down because then this whole argument will be over anyway and will we see equal treatment of everyone, in regards to marriage, no matter what sex they or their chosen partner are.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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