View Poll Results: Should Military Chaplains be allowed to perform Same Sex marriages?

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  • Yes, anywhere

    25 52.08%
  • Yes, in states that allow same sex marraige

    8 16.67%
  • No, never

    13 27.08%
  • Unsure, don't know, or other

    2 4.17%
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Thread: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Possibly....it's not being advertised internally though. Links?
    Training all personnel is probably a slow-going process. My husband attended several seminars concerning this - his biggest gripe wasn't the new rules, but the fact that some people don't get that they are no longer allowed to discriminate. I heard a lot about it last week from him.

    It's been a big deal - eventually everyone would have gone through this same pace, it'll just take time: different branches, different folks, different strokes.
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Training all personnel is probably a slow-going process. My husband attended several seminars concerning this - his biggest gripe wasn't the new rules, but the fact that some people don't get that they are no longer allowed to discriminate. I heard a lot about it last week from him.
    Same here, all branchs are going through it. Once that's done, the repeal will be enacted. I agree the rules are allready in place and apply just as equally to homosexuals as anyone else.

    It's been a big deal - eventually everyone would have gone through this same pace, it'll just take time: different branches, different folks, different strokes.
    This still doesn't say anything of Chaplains performing SSMs on base. Nothing has been mentioned in the training that both your husband and I received other than that SSM still will not be recognized.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It says right in the article that this was a memo that updated chaplain policy and what I quoted was from a Navy spokesperson.

    And of course they can't be performed right now, since officially, DADT is still an active policy until around August, once all the training is done. At this current point in time, military personnel can still be discharged for being found out as gay. However, after DADT is officially repealed, then there is absolutely no reason why a Navy chaplain could not perform a same sex marriage on base, since same sex marriage, by itself, is in no way illegal, it is simply not legally recognized by the US government, yet. Once homosexuals can officially serve without fear of discharge, then it won't matter if they get married (even if it wouldn't be officially recognized by the federal government).
    Well, not that I ever like to use the Navy Times to show policy to sailors...this is how you want to get it so here it is:

    Navy halts move to allow gay weddings on base - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times

    What I've learned in my very long time in the Navy is that it isn't legal until it's in writing and signed by competant authority.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Your ignorance on this issue is starting to show. The military doesn't recognize major religions. It recognizes groups. That's why there are 100+ recognized religious groups within the military and not "Islam" or "Judaism". With that said, I'll show you why you're wrong. The military has already recognized Wiccan groups before:

    An Army Controversy: Should the Witches Be Welcome?



    What's even more damaging your ridiculous assertion on Wicca is that his discharge is related to him trying to become a Wiccan chaplain, if that were even remotely how would this be possible:

    US ARMY CHAPLAIN'S HANDBOOK: EXCERPT ON WICCA



    The military offers training to chaplains wishing to advise Wiccans. Why does it do that if it does not recognize a "non-major religion"? What's even more disturbing is that you're so ignorant of military regulation concerning religion that you think that conversion to any religion is grounds for a discharge.



    I'm telling you to be honest because you provided a clearly edited account of what actually happened. I'm telling you to inform yourself because you have zero idea on what the military regulations are for chaplains. I'm telling you stop trolling around when there are people on this forum who are clearly more intelligent than you are and a lot better at doing basic research. But since you're still bitching about not having a "Wiccan Chaplain" that's explained by the fact that you have to be accredited by a USNAVY recognized program that teaches the laws, guidelines etc of whatever religion you're trying to become a chaplain in. Again, it's a matter of bureaucracy and red tape not discrimination. If it were, why would the military advice chaplains on Wicca at all?
    You are ignoring my point. What the USA military instructs their chaplains concerning treating off-beat religions is irrelevant. The fact is, far as I can tell and no one has offered evidence to the contrary, there are no Wiccan chaplains in the USA military. You say it is due to bureaucracy and red tape. I say that is BS.

    I would think you would know that bureaucracy and red tape are often used as a means of discriminating. If you don't believe that, have a black person try getting a zoning variance in a small southern USA city that is routinely given to white applicants.

    This started out with me asking why the USA military had chaplains as that would seem to violate the first amendment and several stated that it was OK since all religions are treated equally. I think that is absurd and the absence of a Wiccan chaplain would seem to prove it false.

    BTW, I don't give two-hoots-in-hell what you think about my intellgence and research abilities.

    .

  5. #95
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Well, not that I ever like to use the Navy Times to show policy to sailors...this is how you want to get it so here it is:

    Navy halts move to allow gay weddings on base - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times

    What I've learned in my very long time in the Navy is that it isn't legal until it's in writing and signed by competant authority.
    Thank you for the updated info then.

    I say they are wrong for doing this because officiating over a private ceremony in no way reflects that the US government is going to recognize the union. It just simply says that gay personnel are being treated equally in the service, as far as being able to have a military wedding goes.

    Now, I do believe that this is another path of getting DOMA repealed, since gay servicemembers will be able to get married without being discharged from the service after DADT is officially repealed and then their spouses will be able to show that they are being discriminated against because of DOMA by not being allowed the same benefits as opposite sex spouses get.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #96
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Thank you for the updated info then.

    I say they are wrong for doing this because officiating over a private ceremony in no way reflects that the US government is going to recognize the union. It just simply says that gay personnel are being treated equally in the service, as far as being able to have a military wedding goes.

    Now, I do believe that this is another path of getting DOMA repealed, since gay servicemembers will be able to get married without being discharged from the service after DADT is officially repealed and then their spouses will be able to show that they are being discriminated against because of DOMA by not being allowed the same benefits as opposite sex spouses get.
    again...chaplains are military officers which makes them federal officers.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  7. #97
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    again...chaplains are military officers which makes them federal officers.
    But they can still be authorized by the state that they are in to perform a legal marriage for that state. Not to mention, they wouldn't have to be signing the certificate to bless the ceremony. I had my wedding officiated over by a Navy wife, so I don't see why someone else couldn't be the official officiate for the state and the chaplain simply perform the ceremony or most of the ceremony, and the other person sign the license.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #98
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    You are ignoring my point. What the USA military instructs their chaplains concerning treating off-beat religions is irrelevant.
    Of course it seems irrelevant to you cause you're ignorant. If the military gives a Wiccan group a chaplain, what does that make him? I'll wait for you to do the math.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Of course it seems irrelevant to you cause you're ignorant. If the military gives a Wiccan group a chaplain, what does that make him? I'll wait for you to do the math.
    I assume he or she would be a military chaplain that happened to be a Wiccan. Something they currently do not have, as far as I can tell.

    What he would be in your twisted little brain is anyone's guess.

    .

  10. #100
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    Re: Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But they can still be authorized by the state that they are in to perform a legal marriage for that state. Not to mention, they wouldn't have to be signing the certificate to bless the ceremony. I had my wedding officiated over by a Navy wife, so I don't see why someone else couldn't be the official officiate for the state and the chaplain simply perform the ceremony or most of the ceremony, and the other person sign the license.
    No they can't. They are federal employees. There are all kind of rules that govern the behavior of the military, many of which restrict them beyond local law. I think you know that, this is no different. Further, what is "technically legal" rarely cuts it when speaking of the behavior of military members.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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