View Poll Results: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines

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Thread: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

  1. #31
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Anyone who watches Criminal Minds knows that behavioral profiling > "religious" profiling.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Anyone who watches Criminal Minds knows that behavioral profiling > "religious" profiling.
    Lets try religious profiling, which looks more like a Muslim terrorist:

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  3. #33
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Right, if I was sitting next to a skinhead on a plane, and I felt "uncomfortable," I would be justified in asking the captain and the crew to kick him off the plane as well.
    You could ask him

    Probably wouldn't happen

    If I were the pilot I wouldn't kick him off but I respect this guys decision. What if his being uncomfortable prevents him from flying safely/
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

  4. #34
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    You could ask him

    Probably wouldn't happen

    If I were the pilot I wouldn't kick him off but I respect this guys decision. What if his being uncomfortable prevents him from flying safely/
    When pilots rely pretty much on autopilot these days? Come on buddy they ain't flying fighter jets, and most commercial pilots are Air Force veteans who function well (or at least should function well) under stress.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #35
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    When pilots rely pretty much on autopilot these days? Come on buddy they ain't flying fighter jets, and most commercial pilots are Air Force veteans who function well (or at least should function well) under stress.
    Good point
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

  6. #36
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Right, if I was sitting next to a skinhead on a plane, and I felt "uncomfortable," I would be justified in asking the captain and the crew to kick him off the plane as well.
    I'm not quite sure if you're being sarcastic or not...

    But would the captain and crew be justified in acquiesing to your request? Constitutionally, I think I agree with you. Religious discrimination is not protected when it comes to one's right to fly. A restaurant is entitled to say, "No shoes-no shirt-no service." Can an airline have a dress code? A restaurant can certainly refuse to serve blacks -- as they could refuse to serve whites, if they chose.

    What's the answer? Dress codes? Maybe so. The whole circumstance irritates me because Muslims, I believe, should show more deference to even the irrational fears of their American friends. This is not a "Rosa Parks Moment." Nobody was blowing up busses.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the pilot's action is based on a logical fear of the fact that almost every act of terrorism involving airlines in the last decade was perpetrated by Muslim Males or those appearing toe be muslim males
    What about his "logical" fear of crashing? Isn't he more likely to crash than be a victim of terrorism?
    Whether or not a fear is "logical" doesn't seem as important as if action is logical.
    It may be "logical" to fear a car crash. Car crashes happen for American with greater frequency than either plane crashes or plane related terrorism. Does that mean that the "logical" fear justifies a "logical" avoidance of using automobiles?
    I may be wrong.

  8. #38
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    A restaurant can certainly refuse to serve blacks -- as they could refuse to serve whites, if they chose.
    Yes, they can, but not on the basis of the color of their skin, iirc. It can be for dress, whether or not they have tatoos, the cut of their hair, etc. All sorts of reasons, but not on the basis of race.
    I may be wrong.

  9. #39
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The death of Osama was a pretty good moment for humanity too. Doesn't change the fact that a lot of anti-semitism over the years was based on "they killed Jesus" (which isn't even true, the Romans killed Jesus, not the Jews).



    Care to back this statement up? Specifically, care to prove that the people in question were a part of any such group?
    I don't have to. The fact that these men are out there probably weighed on the pilots mind. What he can't do is take off and knowing that someone may want to cause problems...harmless as they may be.

    Being a pilot is nothing more than risk management. Anything that reduces the margins of safety must be resolved prior to departure if at all possible. The passengers said these Imams were acting odd and that was enough for the pilot. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at the passengers.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  10. #40
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    Re: Do you agree with the pilot of Atlantic Southeast Airlines who removed two imams?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm not quite sure if you're being sarcastic or not...

    But would the captain and crew be justified in acquiesing to your request? Constitutionally, I think I agree with you. Religious discrimination is not protected when it comes to one's right to fly. A restaurant is entitled to say, "No shoes-no shirt-no service." Can an airline have a dress code? A restaurant can certainly refuse to serve blacks -- as they could refuse to serve whites, if they chose.

    What's the answer? Dress codes? Maybe so. The whole circumstance irritates me because Muslims, I believe, should show more deference to even the irrational fears of their American friends. This is not a "Rosa Parks Moment." Nobody was blowing up busses.
    Sorry, Maggie, some of the comments in this thread really bring the sarcasm out of me.

    The imams had already paid for their ticket. I'm not sure if kicking them off is constitutional or not, but they had paid for the service, they followed all the rules, and they passed security. The only reason they were kicked off the plane was because the way they looked and dressed made some people uncomfortable. If the airline has a dress code, they should make it publicly available on their website, along with all the other rules about how early you should get to the airport and what you can or can't bring on the plane.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 05-09-11 at 11:27 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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