View Poll Results: Additional domestic drilling will reduce oil prices

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  • Yes

    33 48.53%
  • No

    19 27.94%
  • Maybe

    16 23.53%
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Thread: Domestic Drilling

  1. #41
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    So is everyone just going to ignore my previous post about oil sands and how it well sure everyone up of all kinds of views? Oil sands
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  2. #42
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    So is everyone just going to ignore my previous post about oil sands and how it well sure everyone up of all kinds of views? Oil sands
    No, I mentioned the tar sands. Sure, its profitable, but is it worth the overall cost?

    I realize that these sources are "biased", but shift through the bias for the facts

    STOP: Stop Tar Sands Operations Permanently
    Ellen Cantarow: Energy Is Ugly: Tar Sands Make Their Mark
    NEB - Energy Reports - Canada's Oil Sands: Opportunities and Challenges to*2015 -*Questions and Answers
    Turning tar sands into oil | Energy Bulletin

    Natural gas requirements for the oil sands industry are projected to increase substantially during the projected period from 17 million cubic metres (0.6 billion cubic feet) per day in 2003 to a range of 40 to 45 million cubic metres (1.4 to 1.6 billion cubic) feet per day in 2015. In response to higher and more volatile gas prices, producers are seeking ways to reduce their dependence on natural gas as the major sources of energy and hydrogen for their operations.
    Yea, that sounds really smart...

    The tar sands are mostly mined, but they are pumped, too, after high-pressure steam is injected underground to separate the valuable oily bitumen from the sand, consuming huge amounts of water. Hydrogen is later added to turn it into a synthetic crude.
    Thats an awful lot of water waste.

    All this is energy intensive, as the equivalent of one barrel of oil is needed to process three barrels of synthetic crude. Production of conventional oil requires much less energy.
    I hope that quote is right. Makes it less costly in the long run than I thought.

  3. #43
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfons View Post
    the answer is YES, do not forget the huge oil reserves in Alaska.
    Which if we drilled now would take 10 years to get the market. Want to compare to that demand compounded from 10 years of double digit growth from BRIC nations?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #44
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    Yep

    Speculation leads to changes in oil prices
    Um no. When large portions of the buying market aren't buying for their domestic needs due to light trading due to holidays, prices drop.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #45
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Increasing Domestic supply would become a powerful foreign policy multiplier.
    Only if you don't know how commodities markets work.

    It gives us a world in which the US can use it's monopsony position to tell Chavez to get bent, a world in which we can reduce the strategic importance of the Middle East.
    So no, you don't know. You do realize that Canada is our biggest supplier no? Furthermore, tell me, you support a Chavez like nationalization of American oil? After all, that's the only way to get what you are claiming.

    What do you think those "speculators", those futures traders are going to think about the future price of oil if they see that the supply is going to be massively increasing in said future?
    Massively? Where are you getting that? Want to see massive? Compound ten years of BRIC oil demand. Then compare to that to any additional supply we bring to market. And then compare to that to likely decline in OPEC to stabilize total oil supply. Prices ain't going nowhere but up.

    Drilling here gives us jobs. It increases wages. It increases revenues in a time in which we are facing a debt crises. It grows the economy at a time when growth is anemic and we desperately need to get on a more sharply upward-curving track. It reduces our need to control the stability of foreign sources, increases our strength vis-a-vie our enemies, and gives America more control over her future.
    It also keeps us tied into the oil commodity market which benefits Iran, Chavez and Russia. Oh wait. You didn't think about that did you?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #46
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Um no. When large portions of the buying market aren't buying for their domestic needs due to light trading due to holidays, prices drop.
    That is one thing, but only one thing. Speculation is another.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    That is one thing, but only one thing. Speculation is another.
    The dominate drive of cost is demand. Speculation is only slightly increasing the cost of gas, around the +/- 10-15cents/gallon range.
    Last edited by xpiher; 05-08-11 at 07:42 PM.

  8. #48
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    You obviously aren't taking into account the environmental cost of getting said energy
    nope. we are overregulated in that regard, not under protected.

    nor are you looking at the waste of energy for getting the harder to reach fossil fuels, like the sand oil in Canad
    if it's not worth the squeeze, then the market either won't pursue it, or will advance the technology to make it so.

    It won't make gas go below $3/gallon because of the rate of increase in demand around the rest of the world. All you do is force alternative energy sources to be more expensive by comparison.
    hilarious. we won't force the price of gas lower, but the problem is that we will force the price of gas lower.

    convince the market that an increase in supply like what we are talking about is coming down the pike... and watch the sell-off begin.

  9. #49
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    nope. we are overregulated in that regard, not under protected.
    Of course, thats why people are having their farms destroyed by natural gas drilling



    shrug: if it's not worth the squeeze, then the market either won't pursue it, or will advance the technology to make it so.
    Markets rarely care about long run circumstances



    hilarious. we won't force the price of gas lower, but the problem is that we will force the price of gas lower.
    You mis read. I said that it won't cause the price of gas to go lower, but it will keep gas cheaper compared to alternatives for the short run, which prolongs the problem.

  10. #50
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Only if you don't know how commodities markets work.
    what, you mean because they're fungible? how does fungibility change the fact that price (stated simply) is a function of supply and demand?

    So no, you don't know. You do realize that Canada is our biggest supplier no?
    actually I do. and then comes venezuela.

    Furthermore, tell me, you support a Chavez like nationalization of American oil?
    of course not.

    After all, that's the only way to get what you are claiming.
    wrong. all I am talking about is the ability to either refuse to import Venezuelan crude (which is a market in which we are a de facto monopsony - we are the only ones with a significant refinery capacity capable of turning that sludge into gasoline - light sweet crude it ain't), and that increasing the percent of oil that comes from other-than-the-ME means that fluctuations in that region will effect the oil market less.

    Massively? Where are you getting that?
    bringing the full American resources that are available online does represent a massive bump in supply.

    Want to see massive? Compound ten years of BRIC oil demand. Then compare to that to any additional supply we bring to market. And then compare to that to likely decline in OPEC to stabilize total oil supply. Prices ain't going nowhere but up.
    gosh then I guess we'd better start drilling as soon as possible so that we are positioned to provide a resource whose' demand is guaranteed to go up.

    It also keeps us tied into the oil commodity market which benefits Iran, Chavez and Russia. Oh wait. You didn't think about that did you?
    it certainly doesn't - not any more than we would or wouldn't have been before. Chavez is more dependent on us than we are on him. Iran and Russia benefit more from being suppliers of a rarer commodity - we become a major supplier, we reduce their market share, we reduce their benefit. Russia wants to play games with Eastern Europe? US companies can speed up production and help ya'll out with that.

    windmills and solar replacing Oil in the near future is a pipe dream; at the very least (assuming at some point something will replace oil - something always does) while we are waiting for the tech to get there we should do what we can to keep us growing in the here and now. choosing not to exploit our reserves is the economic equivalent of shooting ourselves in the foot. It slows us down and allows others to pass us for no particularly good reason.

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