View Poll Results: Additional domestic drilling will reduce oil prices

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  • Yes

    33 48.53%
  • No

    19 27.94%
  • Maybe

    16 23.53%
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Thread: Domestic Drilling

  1. #111
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    LOL! Couldn't find anything to refute that we passed peak oil in this country in 1971, or that we are approacing world peak oil I see. Its alright, I knew you would not.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #112
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    what, you mean because they're fungible? how does fungibility change the fact that price (stated simply) is a function of supply and demand?
    Fungibility is precisely why your argument is utter crap.

    actually I do. and then comes venezuela.
    #5 actually.

    Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

    of course not.
    Then your argument does not make sense.

    wrong. all I am talking about is the ability to either refuse to import Venezuelan crude (which is a market in which we are a de facto monopsony - we are the only ones with a significant refinery capacity capable of turning that sludge into gasoline - light sweet crude it ain't), and that increasing the percent of oil that comes from other-than-the-ME means that fluctuations in that region will effect the oil market less.
    Uh. Thanks for admitting you don't know how commodities markets work. Your idea won't work. Venezuela will merely create a number of sham holding organizations and agents to shuffle the heavy sulfur oil around such an import restriction. Or merely sell the oil futures over and over again until the refinery buying the oil from the exercised future holder is CALPRS for all we know. Furthermore, your idea would require the US government to directly bar or place restrictions refineries from buying that crude. That will only increase oil prices. Furthermore, Venezuela will merely cut deals with other nations trading the oil for other items in a barter sort of way it already does with Cuba.

    bringing the full American resources that are available online does represent a massive bump in supply.
    Which at the most liberal estimate is 10 years.

    gosh then I guess we'd better start drilling as soon as possible so that we are positioned to provide a resource whose' demand is guaranteed to go up.
    And that means prices go down how again?

    it certainly doesn't - not any more than we would or wouldn't have been before.
    That does not make logical sense (Like all your posts!). Getting off oil at least for transportation needs would dramatically reduce the price of oil and thereby revenue to Russia, Venezuela and Iran (and Saudi Arabia which is a two sided problem).

    Chavez is more dependent on us than we are on him.
    But not in the way you are thinking. Chavez needs the US committed to oil to keep prices high. If the US dramatically reduces its oil demand, Chavez will fall.

    Iran and Russia benefit more from being suppliers of a rarer commodity - we become a major supplier, we reduce their market share, we reduce their benefit. Russia wants to play games with Eastern Europe? US companies can speed up production and help ya'll out with that.
    Except that being a major supplier won't change prices with the amounts we bring and the total aggregate demand. All you have done is create some more jobs and keep American demand right where Russia wants it. Furthermore, the cost of getting oil to Eastern Europe far outweighs the benefits.

    windmills and solar replacing Oil in the near future is a pipe dream
    You do realize that oil is primarily used for transportation fuel no with industrial uses for byproducts? Wind and solar are base grid power sources. Not the same thing. We can replace petroleum based transportation networks with a mix of natural gas and electric fuels. That alone would dramatically reduce oil demand and basically annihilate the large revenues to Russia.

    choosing not to exploit our reserves is the economic equivalent of shooting ourselves in the foot. It slows us down and allows others to pass us for no particularly good reason.
    And that kids is another reason why you learn what powers what. Or you'll end up looking like Cpwill who just confused base grid power with liquid fuels.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #113
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    NAFTA isn't free trade at all.
    There is no such thing as free trade. If we had free trade we could sell Japan F-22s and Britain could sell Iran nukes. It's all managed.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #114
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    You obviously aren't taking into account the environmental cost of getting said energy,
    What environmental costs? Disturbing a mosquitoe breeding ground is something only Wendy Pleakley can realisticly object to.

    Other than that, there's a termto describe that part of Alaska, a term not much in use today.

    It's a wasteland.



    It won't make gas go below $3/gallon because of the rate of increase in demand around the rest of the world. All you do is force alternative energy sources to be more expensive by comparison.
    Just in case you missed it, a drop from $4.00 a gallon to $3.00 a gallon is a 25% drop.

    And since "alterantive" energy is an uneconomic wet dream anyway, that sidetrack is irrelevant.

    Only people on the left can argue that drilling won't reduce price and with the same mouth insist that a 25% drop is irrelevant.
    Last edited by Mayor Snorkum; 05-09-11 at 03:39 AM.

  5. #115
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Which if we drilled now would take 10 years to get the market. Want to compare to that demand compounded from 10 years of double digit growth from BRIC nations?
    In other words, if you people hadn't worshipped mosquitoes more, ten years ago, when Bush first took office, the oil from Alaska would be now coming on line...

    Here's a clue for you:

    The oil is there.

    Here's another.

    Everyone knows it's there.

    Here's a third.

    IT WILL BE DRILLED.

    May as well be now, for us, instead of later, for the Chinese to pay off the debt your president is saddling our children with.

  6. #116
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    It also keeps us tied into the oil commodity market which benefits Iran, Chavez and Russia. Oh wait. You didn't think about that did you?

    So you're arguing that not drilling, and thereby buying oil from Iran, Venezueal, Russia, et al, won't keep us "tied" the commodity market?

    In the real world, there's no other alternative.

  7. #117
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Of course, thats why people are having their farms destroyed by natural gas drilling
    Then stop opposing drilling off shore....

  8. #118
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    You aren't looking at it right. The time it takes to dill, get enough oil to actually process, and then process has an AVG of 10 years. The red tape has nothing to with it.
    I found this
    Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Analysis of Oil and Gas Production in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge

    Timing of first production


    At the present time, there has been little exploration and development activity in the coastal plain region. The EIA report Potential Oil Production from the Coastal Plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge: Updated Assessment suggested that between 7 and 12 years were required from an approval to explore and develop the coastal region of ANWR until first production. The study further noted that the time to first production could vary significantly based on the time required for petroleum leasing once approval to develop ANWR has been given. Environmental considerations and the possibility of drilling restrictions also could significantly affect projected schedules.
    Following the earlier study, this analysis assumes that passage of the current legislation in 2004 will result in first production from the ANWR area in 10 years, i.e., 2013, assuming that the first lease sale occurs 22 months after enactment, as required by H.R.6 passed by the House of Representatives.


    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

  9. #119
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    The Oil Problem

    "The global production of conventional oil will soon reach a peak, and subsequently decline, due to resource limits. This peak in conventional oil production will have severe economic consequences.

    As the production of conventional oil declines, the world will increasingly use oil from non-conventional sources. Already, small amounts of such oil are used, and there are very large quantities in the world, but, by and large, these oils are more expensive than conventional oil, and the global economy will suffer as greater proportions are used.

    More importantly, the decline rate of conventional oil will be fairly rapid, about a 3% fall each year, and present calculations indicate that it is unlikely that non-conventional sources can come on-stream fast enough to offset conventional’s decline. In this case, if demand does not fall in parallel, severe world oil shortages are inevitable.

    The Production Peak


    Oil production from a region reaches peak, and starts to decline, once falling output from the large, early fields cannot be replaced by production from smaller, newer fields coming on stream.

    To-date, nearly 50 countries are already past their resource-limited oil production peak. These countries include the USA (in 1971), Indonesia (1977), the Former Soviet Union (the ‘economic’ peak in 1987 disguising the resource mid-point), and the UK (in 1999)."
    Oil & Gas Situation
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #120
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    Re: Domestic Drilling

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    LOL! Couldn't find anything to refute that we passed peak oil in this country in 1971, or that we are approacing world peak oil I see. Its alright, I knew you would not.
    That was my first hit. It's really not worth argueing about. You want us to stop drilling. You say we are running out, I say we have plenty and we are finding more all the time. We are finding new technologies to get to it. I really don't care if we're at peak oil. Sounds like fear mongering to me. Much like global warming.
    What did you think of the video? I still don't know what to make of it.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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