Did you want Osama Bin Laden killed?

I wanted to see him get raped by squirrel monkeys.

Gina said:

I beg to differ. There were spontaneous celebrations in the streets of DC, NY and elsewhere. Clearly, bin Laden’s death meant enough for people to leave their homes and go to cheer until the wee hours of the morning on a Sunday night. Because it didn’t mean as much to you, doesn’t mean it didn’t to everyone. I think you underestimate the impact of it and I stand by my comment.

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You make the same fallacy as Disney in equating "not as big of an event as 9/11" with "not important to me", which is a strawman you grasp onto because you can't really debate the actual points i made.

The economic fall out of 9/11 has been reported at 2 trillion dollars, and was felt immediately with the destruction of the towers and crashing of the planes. There has been little economic impact of Osama's death.

What was the practical impact of 9/11? Thousands and thousands of people directly had people in their lives that were no longer present, or whose physical well being had severely changed. Not to mention millions of people being grounded in the following days of air traffic shut down. What is the practical impact of Osama's death?

The societal impact of 9/11 launched the War on Terror, led to the creation of an new government agency, and a complete change in the way many American's thought regarding their safety. What is the societal impact of Osama's capture?

You could possibly argue that the emotional impacts are different, but I'd argue that's not even close either. Things people witness first hand have a far stronger affect on them in general than a similar thing that they're simply told about. Assuming, somehow, that 9/11 and the killing of Osama were equal events....one was witnessed, live, over multiple hours and replayed for days and weeks on end. The other has had no video, no images, nothing but words explaining what happened. That alone is going to severely change the emotional impact people have. Additionally, the importance of 9/11 was built that day, at that moment, when it was at its highest possible point of importance. Osama is 10 years removed from the point where the ferver against him was at its peek, with his capabilities to harm us, which added into the original hatred for him, long gone.

As far as the gatherings in DC, NY and elsewhere? On top of events held in major cities like New York, DC, Chicago, almost every state you could find some town or city having some kind of vigil. Oregon, Massachusetts, California, Florida, and more. Even people abroad mourned.

Colleges from New York to Virginia to Texas to California and more cancelled with many specifically providing councilling services to students due to the emotional toll this caused. Even the NFL canceled their games due to it.

I am not sitting here telling you that the death of Bin Laden isn't a significant and important event, and one that could be just as important as 9/11 to some people. But on a national scale, to the American people as a whole, there is no way I can even imagine and you've presented no evidence to suggest that it is anywhere NEAR the impact, scope, of magnitude of 9/11.

It’s not how liberals felt about Clinton. That was not my point. It’s how they felt about Bush.

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I know YOUR point wasn't about how liberals felt about Clinton. MY point was that the "class" Liberals showed was also met by class on the Republican side by not immediately pointing fingers, immediately attempting to make political points, immediately attempting to attack a political enemy. Yes, YOUR point was about how liberals felt about Clinton. My point was that Republican action ALSO played a part in that and while some conservative action now may be different than liberal action then, some liberal action now is different than conservative action then.

They were scorched after the 2000 election. They felt, and rightly so it was proved, that stopping the recount in Florida kept Gore from winning the state and that the Supreme Court acted improperly to install Bush as president. It’s still a sore subject to this day, but on 9/11, and the aftermath, it didn’t matter. We were attacked as a nation. We stood as a nation, regardless of how we felt about the election of 2000.

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Yes. And in 2000 Republicans were still upset about Clinton, having significant issues with his time as President. They also were excoriation by liberals for "stealing the election" and the constant attacks, very personal in nature (such as how he spoke), against President Obama. And yet, WE as a nation stood, regardless of how we felt about the previous administration, and focused on what was occurring and not taking it as a chance to attack the other side.

The same point can be made in reverse over this issue. Conservatives are still fuming over Obama winning the election of 2008. Since the day after his election, they haven’t given him an inch and they won’t now.

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And the same point I made about how conservatives by and large acted immediately following 9/11 can be made about Liberals now, refusing to stop attacking Bush, refusing to ever actually admit anything positive about him, refusing to ever let a chance to bash him slip by.

The impact on this country that 9/11 had can not be compared to this death, and while some conservatives may not be acting like many liberals did in 2001, many liberals aren't acting like conservatives acted then either. So before you start throwing stones at one side you may want to notice the glass house you're standing in.

Eh, I would have rather seen him brought before a civilian court and tried and then thrown to rot in jail for the rest of his life. He got off easy if you ask me, but at least he's gone now and we don't have to worry about him anymore. Al-Qaeda will crumble.

tessaesque said:

I voted without reading the OP. After reading it, my answer doesn't change, I just reject the lunacy in the OP.

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This.

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It's probably one of the least important things I could think of, to be quite honest.

disneydude said:

Yet another example of the extreme ODS amongst the right-wing.

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LOL..although the tables can be turned on those who blindly following the left wing, one wing compliments the other.

BTW Honor and integrity..LMAO, politicians have no idea on how to behave in this fashion.

No matter how one answers you manage to try and be insulting. I have no idea what is wrong with you and this whole.....crap that you do. Do you not have thumbs so you have to press "." a lot? Maybe your space bar is broke? I think you can get keyboards for like $10?

JohnWOlin said:

No matter how one answers you manage to try and be insulting. I have no idea what is wrong with you and this whole.....crap that you do. Do you not have thumbs so you have to press "." a lot? Maybe your space bar is broke? I think you can get keyboards for like $10?

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What you the grammer police? BTW no one was answering me, I didn't post a question. I was replying to a insult any reason why he gets the hall pass and I don't, perhaps it your lean.

Thorgasm said:

I wanted him tickled to death. Does that count?

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I would have gone for SLOWWWWWWWLY dipped in a acid bath myself.

deltabtry said:

What you the grammer police? BTW no one was answering me, I didn't post a question. I was replying to a insult any reason why he gets the hall pass and I don't, perhaps it your lean.

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Pull over buddy! Didn't you see the sign back there? "Punctuation Strictly Enforced." Now let's see your diploma.

deltabtry said:

What you the grammer police? BTW no one was answering me, I didn't post a question. I was replying to a insult any reason why he gets the hall pass and I don't, perhaps it your lean.

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Sorry meant my post for the OP.

deltabtry said:

LOL..although the tables can be turned on those who blindly following the left wing, one wing compliments the other.

BTW Honor and integrity..LMAO, politicians have no idea on how to behave in this fashion.

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I must NOT agree. Both wings Battle each other and do little for this Nation. Why are there ONLY 2 Parties when there are so many ideologies?

Gina said:

The same point can be made in reverse over this issue. Conservatives are still fuming over Obama winning the election of 2008. Since the day after his election, they haven’t given him an inch and they won’t now.
Reread your first paragraph I quoted above. Read that description of the devastation of 9/11. The mastermind/financier of that is dead, brought to justice and conservatives cannot set aside 2008. The Gallup daily poll gave the president a 6% bump over the last 3 days for a total rate of 52%. That’s representative of the voters who elected him. Even if I GWB’s rating went straight to 86% in the first week. So though you say most conservative media and posters give him credit, it doesn’t show in the polls.

Maybe the bump will increase next week? But for now, again, I stand by my post.

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Giving him credit and approving of his policies and overall performance are two different things. Obama deserves credit for a bold and gutsy call to perform a surgical strike to take out America's most wanted terrorist, and to do so on foreign soil without the consent of that nation. I give him a lot of credit for making the right call there. Most reasonable folks on the right are willing to do so (yes there are some partisan scumbags, but both sides have them)

But I still don't approve of Obama overall. One shining moment does not undo all the other things I take issue with. So while I can say he did a great job on this specific instance, it doesn't mean I suddenly think he's a good President.

Badmutha said:

So Obama said "Yes, Kill Osama".......

........lets give him credit.
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Do you understand how lame you look right now with this "all he did was say yes" mess?:roll:

It was so strange to watch the extreme right wing waiting around for their talking points and what they should say.. Now that they have it? What a big fail. I mean this crap about all Obama did was say yes is just making em looking foolish:3oops:

Rush Limbaugh the other day was trying to argue that Obama said "I" to much and didn't say "we" enough. Beck argued that a shoe could be commander-in-chief. Now the conversation turns to waterboarding and how it apparently is what soley got Osama bin Laden. That Bush didn't get the credit he deserved. These pundits miss the part where he did get the credit he deserved and even Obama invited former president Clinton and Bush to a ground zero ceremony today. They miss all that. They need this to be as partisan as possible. If it doesn't stay partisan, if it doesn't stay black and white with no gray area then they lose. They lose their jobs, they lose their sole purpose in life, and that is to suck the life out of real, honest, hardworking Americans.

The Giant Noodle said:

I must NOT agree. Both wings Battle each other and do little for this Nation. Why are there ONLY 2 Parties when there are so many ideologies?

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I should have been more specific, and yes your right there is plenty of blame to go around.

JohnWOlin said:

Rush Limbaugh the other day was trying to argue that Obama said "I" to much and didn't say "we" enough. Beck argued that a shoe could be commander-in-chief. Now the conversation turns to waterboarding and how it apparently is what soley got Osama bin Laden. That Bush didn't get the credit he deserved. These pundits miss the part where he did get the credit he deserved and even Obama invited former president Clinton and Bush to a ground zero ceremony today. They miss all that. They need this to be as partisan as possible. If it doesn't stay partisan, if it doesn't stay black and white with no gray area then they lose. They lose their jobs, they lose their sole purpose in life, and that is to suck the life out of real, honest, hardworking Americans.

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I would agree with Rush and other on this, Obama was grand standing just a little to much perhaps he should have used Reagan's example:

Psychoclown said:

Giving him credit and approving of his policies and overall performance are two different things. Obama deserves credit for a bold and gutsy call to perform a surgical strike to take out America's most wanted terrorist, and to do so on foreign soil without the consent of that nation. I give him a lot of credit for making the right call there. Most reasonable folks on the right are willing to do so (yes there are some partisan scumbags, but both sides have them)

But I still don't approve of Obama overall. One shining moment does not undo all the other things I take issue with. So while I can say he did a great job on this specific instance, it doesn't mean I suddenly think he's a good President.

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Good post, my sediments exactly.

deltabtry said:

I would agree with Rush and other on this, Obama was grand standing just a little to much perhaps he should have used Reagan's example:

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How was he grand standing if he didn't do any speeches...

Zyphlin said:

You make the same fallacy as Disney in equating "not as big of an event as 9/11" with "not important to me", which is a strawman you grasp onto because you can't really debate the actual points i made.

The economic fall out of 9/11 has been reported at 2 trillion dollars, and was felt immediately with the destruction of the towers and crashing of the planes. There has been little economic impact of Osama's death.

What was the practical impact of 9/11? Thousands and thousands of people directly had people in their lives that were no longer present, or whose physical well being had severely changed. Not to mention millions of people being grounded in the following days of air traffic shut down. What is the practical impact of Osama's death?

The societal impact of 9/11 launched the War on Terror, led to the creation of an new government agency, and a complete change in the way many American's thought regarding their safety. What is the societal impact of Osama's capture?

You could possibly argue that the emotional impacts are different, but I'd argue that's not even close either. Things people witness first hand have a far stronger affect on them in general than a similar thing that they're simply told about. Assuming, somehow, that 9/11 and the killing of Osama were equal events....one was witnessed, live, over multiple hours and replayed for days and weeks on end. The other has had no video, no images, nothing but words explaining what happened. That alone is going to severely change the emotional impact people have. Additionally, the importance of 9/11 was built that day, at that moment, when it was at its highest possible point of importance. Osama is 10 years removed from the point where the ferver against him was at its peek, with his capabilities to harm us, which added into the original hatred for him, long gone.

As far as the gatherings in DC, NY and elsewhere? On top of events held in major cities like New York, DC, Chicago, almost every state you could find some town or city having some kind of vigil. Oregon, Massachusetts, California, Florida, and more. Even people abroad mourned.

Colleges from New York to Virginia to Texas to California and more cancelled with many specifically providing councilling services to students due to the emotional toll this caused. Even the NFL canceled their games due to it.

I am not sitting here telling you that the death of Bin Laden isn't a significant and important event, and one that could be just as important as 9/11 to some people. But on a national scale, to the American people as a whole, there is no way I can even imagine and you've presented no evidence to suggest that it is anywhere NEAR the impact, scope, of magnitude of 9/11.

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Because you can’t “even imagine” does not mean it didn’t have an impact similar to 9/11 and that is why Disney and I are correct in stating it’s not important to you. You personalized, evaluated and judged the impact as less than 9/11, not us.

Further, as you have posted, twice now, in great detail, the terrible physical destruction and far reaching effects of that day, you bolster my claim that bin Laden’s death is of national significance. The man who was most responsible for the horror of that day and ensuing changes in our American lives is dead. Though there was no video or pictures of his death, as the news hit our TV screens, we saw video and stills of towers coming down, the skeletal remains of the buildings, the first responders digging through smoking rubble and people holding signs with the names of their potentially dead loved ones. We were, as a nation, in that moment of terror and grief once again. I and mean, as a nation:


The nationally televised Sunday Night Baseball game was still on ESPN and as people in crowd got messages on their phones and it was announced, the ballpark broke out in chants of USA! USA!

I cannot imagine that it didn’t have a great impact on us.

I know YOUR point wasn't about how liberals felt about Clinton. MY point was that the "class" Liberals showed was also met by class on the Republican side by not immediately pointing fingers, immediately attempting to make political points, immediately attempting to attack a political enemy. Yes, YOUR point was about how liberals felt about Clinton. My point was that Republican action ALSO played a part in that and while some conservative action now may be different than liberal action then, some liberal action now is different than conservative action then.

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This is a confusing statement. You know my point wasn’t about how liberals felt about Clinton, but then it is?

Yes. And in 2000 Republicans were still upset about Clinton, having significant issues with his time as President. They also were excoriation by liberals for "stealing the election" and the constant attacks, very personal in nature (such as how he spoke), against President Obama???. And yet, WE as a nation stood, regardless of how we felt about the previous administration, and focused on what was occurring and not taking it as a chance to attack the other side.



And the same point I made about how conservatives by and large acted immediately following 9/11 can be made about Liberals now, refusing to stop attacking Bush, refusing to ever actually admit anything positive about him, refusing to ever let a chance to bash him slip by.

The impact on this country that 9/11 had can not be compared to this death, and while some conservatives may not be acting like many liberals did in 2001, many liberals aren't acting like conservatives acted then either. So before you start throwing stones at one side you may want to notice the glass house you're standing in.

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The crux of these statements is that liberals are to blame for conservative’s failure to set aside their anger at President Obama’s legitimate election to the office to stand with him as Americans. That seems very childish of them.

My house is very sound as Speaker Boehner’s refusal to bring a resolution to the floor to commend the troops for getting bin Laden reinforces it:
House Republicans say they have no plans to follow the Senate in passing a resolution honoring the military mission that killed Osama bin Laden.

That is very petty especially when the house could have followed the example of the senate and congratulate Bush as well. It passed 97-0, so at least not all Republicans are willing to slight the military to avoid giving the president kudos and Democrats were fine with giving Bush the same. Were Nancy Pelosi were to try that, the screeching from the right that liberals hate the troops would be deafening.

Badmutha said:

If you answered YES......

Congratulations, you have the same intellect, guts, ability, and capability of our Community-Orgainzer-In-Chief...... Barack HusSame Obama.......who also answered YES, which thereby brought an end to his contribution and involvement in the planning, execution, and situation alltogether.

If you believe a President with zero foreign policy experience and not a shred of military experience had anything more to do with Osama's killing than "Yes"........you would sorely be mistaken.

Let us congratulate Obama on saying YES, albeit a nutless monkey could have also done that job.


If you answered NO......

You are not qualified to be Commander-In-Chief.......sorry.
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As Christian I say neither NO nor YES, but Obama made a good job!

Kali said:

Do you understand how lame you look right now with this "all he did was say yes" mess?:roll:

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Tell me......

.......and then tell me what you think a President with no foreign policy experience, and not a shred of military experience, did above and beyond "Yes, kill Osama".

It was so strange to watch the extreme right wing waiting around for their talking points and what they should say.. Now that they have it? What a big fail. I mean this crap about all Obama did was say yes is just making em looking foolish:3oops:

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Its not a talking point........its common sense.
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Osama as shark food works well with me.

So if the mission had failed, Obama would bear no blame for it?

molten_dragon said:

I assume you have some sort of proof to back this up? What recent president has actually taken a larger role in planning and executing military actions than approving (or not) plans that others have made for him to see.

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Do I really have to go to that extent to make this point?

Good gawd........were talking about a Community-Organizer-In-Chief who thought that a Corpsman........



....was Corpse-Man.....a military super hero similar to Superman.
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