View Poll Results: Did NATO's assassination of Ghadaffi's civilian grandchildren constitute war crimes?

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  • Yes, here's why:

    4 19.05%
  • Yes, who cares

    0 0%
  • No, here's why:

    17 80.95%
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Thread: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

  1. #1
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    Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    When Bush invaded Iraq based on massive amounts from intel from every credible agency saying that Saddam had a WMD program, Bush was declared to be an imperialist. When Bush took us to war with only an authorization for the use of force from Congress (same thing he had in Afghanistan), he was labeled a war criminal.

    Over the past couple months, Barack Obama has led us into an undeclared war against Libya. Without getting even an authorization for the use of force from Congress, Obama has bombed military and civilian sites in Libya under the veil of NATO. A month after requesting an additional $1.7 billion in funds for Libya so that Ghadaffi could fight Al Qaida terrorists, Obama was firing missiles at Ghadaffi from a distance and funding Libyan rebels with unconfirmed ties to Al Qaida.

    Then this past weekend, drowned out by the killing of Osama Bin Laden, NATO's missile strikes assassinated Ghadaffi's 29 year old son and three of his grandchildren at a peaceful family gathering. Despite Obama's claim that their mission is not to kill or remove Ghadaffi, just to save civilian lives by lobbing missiles at the country from a distance, Obama killed innocent civilian family members of Ghadaffi. That event took place later in the same day Ghadaffi called on a ceasefire and offered to negotiate a truce.

    Obama is not the President of peace, hope, change, or negotiation. He is turning out to be more violent than his predecessor.

    Ghadaffi is a head of a sovereign state that we are not at war with. He was seeking a ceasefire the day we assassinated his civilian grandchildren.

    So here is the question, was this assassination a violation of international law and/or the War Crimes Act of 1996? Please provide proof and documentation where possible.
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    I'm not sure that those deaths can be categorized as an "assassination," unless it can be shown that they were intentionally targeted.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    They fired a missile into his home where they were having a peaceful family gathering. I'm not sure you could argue there was any military value to the target.
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    I voted no, because Bush killed Uday and the other hussain boy and there was not heard a cry or fuss. This operation is also being conducted by NATO. As much as I don't agree with the Libyan Air Strikes and our involvement, I certainly don't think Obama is a war criminal.
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    On an international level no, on a U.S. level possibly.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    They fired a missile into his home where they were having a peaceful family gathering. I'm not sure you could argue there was any military value to the target.
    Well first I would need evidence that it was an American aircraft, doing it on orders/authorization from President Obama. If this can be shown, and if it can be shown that the house was intentionally targeted, then yes, it would be a war crime. So far, I don't think any of the above three are true.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 05-04-11 at 07:10 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    On an international level no, on a U.S. level possibly.
    I'm not sure I get your reasoning Bigfoot.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #8
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    No, because the "home" was located on a military base.

    Bab al-Azizia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Military bases have military value.

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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    When Bush invaded Iraq based on massive amounts from intel from every credible agency saying that Saddam had a WMD program, Bush was declared to be an imperialist. When Bush took us to war with only an authorization for the use of force from Congress (same thing he had in Afghanistan), he was labeled a war criminal.

    Over the past couple months, Barack Obama has led us into an undeclared war against Libya. Without getting even an authorization for the use of force from Congress, Obama has bombed military and civilian sites in Libya under the veil of NATO. A month after requesting an additional $1.7 billion in funds for Libya so that Ghadaffi could fight Al Qaida terrorists, Obama was firing missiles at Ghadaffi from a distance and funding Libyan rebels with unconfirmed ties to Al Qaida.

    Then this past weekend, drowned out by the killing of Osama Bin Laden, NATO's missile strikes assassinated Ghadaffi's 29 year old son and three of his grandchildren at a peaceful family gathering. Despite Obama's claim that their mission is not to kill or remove Ghadaffi, just to save civilian lives by lobbing missiles at the country from a distance, Obama killed innocent civilian family members of Ghadaffi. That event took place later in the same day Ghadaffi called on a ceasefire and offered to negotiate a truce.

    Obama is not the President of peace, hope, change, or negotiation. He is turning out to be more violent than his predecessor.

    Ghadaffi is a head of a sovereign state that we are not at war with. He was seeking a ceasefire the day we assassinated his civilian grandchildren.

    So here is the question, was this assassination a violation of international law and/or the War Crimes Act of 1996? Please provide proof and documentation where possible.
    I don't pretend to know much about the War Crimes Act or the Geneva Conventions, but a cursory look at the Act, which led me to the US Code, states the following regarding Murder:

    (D) Murder.— The act of a person who intentionally kills, or conspires or attempts to kill, or kills whether intentionally or unintentionally in the course of committing any other offense under this subsection, one or more persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including those placed out of combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause.
    Source.

    Based on the wording above, I would argue that to prosecute Obama for Murder of the civilians, you would need to prove intent. Did he intend to murder these people? Based on that, I doubt you could make a case. NATO has maintained that the attack was not intended as an assasination, and we can believe them or not, but pursuing prosecution would be an up hill battle, IMO.
    "Action expresses priorities."
    ~Mohandas Gandhi

  10. #10
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADG View Post
    I don't pretend to know much about the War Crimes Act or the Geneva Conventions, but a cursory look at the Act, which led me to the US Code, states the following regarding Murder:



    Source.

    Based on the wording above, I would argue that to prosecute Obama for Murder of the civilians, you would need to prove intent. Did he intend to murder these people? Based on that, I doubt you could make a case. NATO has maintained that the attack was not intended as an assasination, and we can believe them or not, but pursuing prosecution would be an up hill battle, IMO.
    Not to mention, NATO =/= Obama.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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