View Poll Results: Did NATO's assassination of Ghadaffi's civilian grandchildren constitute war crimes?

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Thread: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    This is good, I think we are making progress. Now, Bush got a lot of flack for how Afghanistan was operated. A lot of people said he took his eye off the ball and wasn't as focused on it and so on. But Afghanistan was also turned over to NATO. So should we have cut Bush more slack on Afghanistan?
    I didn't view Afghanistan as a war crime, but the difference between that operation and Libya is that Americans are most certainly in the lead. Whereas in Libya, although we are increasing the use of drones, we've pretty much pulled out all of our strike aircraft out of there. The US has relinquished leadership of the operation to NATO, whereas in Afghanistan we pretty much ARE NATO.

    My beef regarding Afghanistan was that it wasn't handled well (at least not between 2002 and 2009), not that it was illegal or a criminal act.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 05-04-11 at 07:37 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    This is good, I think we are making progress. Now, Bush got a lot of flack for how Afghanistan was operated. A lot of people said he took his eye off the ball and wasn't as focused on it and so on. But Afghanistan was also turned over to NATO. So should we have cut Bush more slack on Afghanistan?
    The key here is that Bush abandoned Afghanistan to invade Iraq, and the pretext of that war was based on lies.
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    No he is not-the only time someone is prosecuted as a war criminal is when they lose a war. ie we strung up Japanese generals for the Bataan Death march and shot Nazis for running death camps but Stalin was not executed for similar atrocities



  4. #24
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    The key here is that Bush abandoned Afghanistan to invade Iraq, and the pretext of that war was based on lies.
    wrong

    you would have to prove that Bush KNEW that there was no legitimate basis to invade Iraq. which would mean that he knew that there were no WMD in Iraq

    and if he knew that why would he send in hundredK people to look for stuff and prove him wrong?



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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not sure I get your reasoning Bigfoot.
    The U.N. decided to do all of this so we are fine internationally. I am not sure Libya was "in our vital interest" so he probably should have gotten permission fro Congress.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    No he is not-the only time someone is prosecuted as a war criminal is when they lose a war. ie we strung up Japanese generals for the Bataan Death march and shot Nazis for running death camps but Stalin was not executed for similar atrocities
    There's a difference between actually BEING a war criminal, and being PUNISHED for being a war criminal.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  7. #27
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    The U.N. decided to do all of this so we are fine internationally. I am not sure Libya was "in our vital interest" so he probably should have gotten permission fro Congress.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...ver-libya.html
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #28
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Not to mention, NATO =/= Obama.
    How would be accountable for actions taken by NATO anyway?

  9. #29
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    How could he be a war criminal? Did not the administration claim the USA is not at war, that it is conducting a kinetic military action or something like that?

    Maybe he could be charged as a kinetic military action criminal.

    .
    Last edited by TOJ; 05-05-11 at 12:03 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is Barack Obama a war criminal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    How could he be a war criminal? Did not the administration claim the USA is not at war, that it is conducting a kinetic military action or something like that?

    Maybe he could be charged as a kinetic military action criminal.

    .
    You're right TOJ, but I really don't care what the Libyan intervention is "officially" classified as. in REALITY, the enforcement of a no-fly zone is an act of war.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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