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Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

Is Israel A Good Ally?

  • Total voters
    21
theplaydrive said:
I've never seen StillBallin use those sources so your loaded question was nonsensical.
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It wasn't nonsense at all, since he has not proven capable of answering his own question, thus bringing into question the sites he does use.
 
Gardener said:
It wasn't nonsense at all, since he has not proven capable of answering his own question, thus bringing into question the sites he does use.
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Why was I supposed to answer my own question again? I did mention Natalie :shrug:
 
Gardener said:
It wasn't nonsense at all, since he has not proven capable of answering his own question, thus bringing into question the sites he does use.
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Nah. The only thing that brings into question the sites he uses is your loaded question.
 
theplaydrive said:
I want to know if DP thinks Israel is a good ally to the United States. These are the conditions for "good":

1. Security - Does our alliance with Israel help or hurt our security? If it does both, does the help outweigh the hurt?

2. Loyalty - Does Israel ever intentionally act against U.S. interests? If so, do the benefits of our alliance outweigh the consequences of those actions?

3. Cost - Do the benefits of our alliance outweigh the costs, financial and political, of this alliance?

Make a case for keeping or ending our alliance with Israel. I tend to fall somewhere in the middle with a lean towards "ending".
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The answers are:

1. Both, and the answer to the second part is probably classified.
2. Yes.
3. No.

That said, those answers also apply to every one of our other "allies" around the globe. So as a bash-Israel thread, this one is a definite "fail". :)
 
DiAnna said:
The answers are:

1. Both, and the answer to the second part is probably classified.
2. Yes.
3. No.

That said, those answers also apply to every one of our other "allies" around the globe. So as a bash-Israel thread, this one is a definite "fail". :)
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Agree with those answers. Personally I don't think our alliance with Israel should "end." I just think more scrutiny needs to come into play when discussing our policies toward Israel when they're not helping.
 
DiAnna said:
So as a bash-Israel thread, this one is a definite "fail". :)
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LOL. I'll try harder next time. Maybe my next poll will be a loaded question like "Why does Israel suck so hard?"

(For all those prepared to call me an anti-semite and by "those" I mean X Factor, I am JOKING.)

But as far as the rest of your post, I agree.
 
theplaydrive said:
LOL. I'll try harder next time. Maybe my next poll will be a loaded question like "Why does Israel suck so hard?"

(For all those prepared to call me an anti-semite and by "those" I mean X Factor, I am JOKING.)

But as far as the rest of your post, I agree.
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Was your promotion of Mersheimer and Walt's Elders of Zion style screed about the Jewish lobby also a joke when you submitted it in another thread?
 
Gardener said:
Was your promotion of Mersheimer and Walt's Elders of Zion style screed about the Jewish lobby also a joke when you submitted it in another thread?
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People who accuse Mearsheimer or Walt of anything but being political scientists and academics with a viewpoint are not worth my time.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Why was I supposed to answer my own question again? :
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Certainly. You asked it, after all, and if you really can't come up with something real instead of just listing an actress you find hot, then you give the very real impression you can't come up with anything at all.
 
Gardener said:
Certainly. You asked it, after all, and if you really can't come up with something real instead of just listing an actress you find hot, then you give the very real impression you can't come up with anything at all.
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Hence why I asked the question.
 
theplaydrive said:
People who accuse Mearsheimer or Walt of anything but being political scientists and academics with a viewpoint are not worth my time.
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Anybody who views these two frauds as peddling anything but classic canards are not worthy of mine.
 
I think Israel is a good ally, and I support them in their sovereignty, though I do not agree with everything they do. I think anyone who agrees with Israel 100% isn't wise.
 
Gardener said:
Anybody who views these two frauds as peddling anything but classic canards are not worthy of mine.
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I don't agree with everything they say. They're realists and I'm more of a constructivist. Nonetheless, they're definitely respectable academics.

Which political scientists/IR theorists do you agree with in regards to Israel?
 
Gardener said:
Therefore you have confirmed everything I suggested.
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Alright, humor me and give me an outline of what exactly has Israel done for the United States within the last 10 years that even remotely compares to all of the aid and political support we give them.

To me, RIGHT NOW our relationship with Israel is more of a liability than an asset, in terms of what we are trying to accomplish in Iraq/Afghanistan, and our attempts to somehow influence the Arab Spring in our favor. Am I saying the alliance should be terminated? No. I just want a clearheaded, forthright, honest discussion of how, within the past decade, the relationship has helped us more than it has hurt us.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Alright, humor me and give me an outline of what exactly has Israel done for the United States within the last 10 years that even remotely compares to all of the aid and political support we give them.

To me, RIGHT NOW our relationship with Israel is more of a liability than an asset, in terms of what we are trying to accomplish in Iraq/Afghanistan, and our attempts to somehow influence the Arab Spring in our favor. Am I saying the alliance should be terminated? No. I just want a clearheaded, forthright, honest discussion of how, within the past decade, the relationship has helped us more than it has hurt us.
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They blew up Saddam's nuclear plant for us! AND they took the heat for the sabotage of Iran's nuclear program. Plus they can... remove... certain unhelpful international citizens that the USA would like to see removed, but cannot constitutionally remove on its own. See, it's all good! :mrgreen:
 
DiAnna said:
They blew up Saddam's nuclear plant for us! AND they took the heat for the sabotage of Iran's nuclear program. Plus they can... remove... certain unhelpful international citizens that the USA would like to see removed, but cannot constitutionally remove on its own. See, it's all good! :mrgreen:
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So basically DiAnna is saying that Israel is our little pitbull in the ME?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Alright, humor me and give me an outline of what exactly has Israel done for the United States within the last 10 years that even remotely compares to all of the aid and political support we give them.

To me, RIGHT NOW our relationship with Israel is more of a liability than an asset, in terms of what we are trying to accomplish in Iraq/Afghanistan, and our attempts to somehow influence the Arab Spring in our favor. Am I saying the alliance should be terminated? No. I just want a clearheaded, forthright, honest discussion of how, within the past decade, the relationship has helped us more than it has hurt us.
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I shouldn't have to humor you. If you think it is necessary to placate the irrational hatred of Jews so absolutely endemic to the Arab world as the price to pay for currying favor with them, then there is nothing left to be said.

You cannot come up with anything good about our supporting Israel. That says more than anything I could possibly say, myself.
 
Gardener said:
I shouldn't have to humor you. If you think it is necessary to placate the irrational hatred of Jews so absolutely endemic to the Arab world as the price to pay for currying favor with them, then there is nothing left to be said.
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It's in EVERYONE'S interest to find a peaceful solution in the Middle East, and the fact is neither side has been honestly attempting to do so, and even though the US has tremendous influence over Israel we don't seem to hold them accountable when they make decisions that go against are interests. If you see that as appeasement, then whatever.

You cannot come up with anything good about our supporting Israel. That says more than anything I could possibly say, myself.
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In all honesty I can't come up with many other good things about our other allies. Israel is hardly the exception in my book. But at least NATO has troops on the ground in Afghanistan, even if it's a token amount.
 
StillBallin75 said:
So basically DiAnna is saying that Israel is our little pitbull in the ME?
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lol, you wanted to know how our alliance with Israel ever benefitted us. Well, having a personal guard dog with a serious set of teeth in the ME isn't all bad. I'm just sayin'. :mrgreen:

Edit: Seriously, I'm a "pox on both their houses" kind of gal when it comes to the Israeli/Palistenian issue. However, so many anti-Israeli posters are so completely rabid, foam-spitting, irrational haters that I sometimes end up defending Israel when it took a perfectly logical step to respond to provocation. Mostly I stay out of the ME forums. They make my hair hurt.
 
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DiAnna said:
lol, you wanted to know how our alliance with Israel ever benefitted us. Well, having a personal guard dog with a serious set of teeth in the ME isn't all bad. I'm just sayin'. :mrgreen:

Edit: Seriously, I'm a "pox on both their houses" kind of gal when it comes to the Israeli/Palistenian issue. However, so many anti-Israeli posters are so completely rabid, foam-spitting, irrational haters that I sometimes end up defending Israel when it took a perfectly logical step to respond to provocation. Mostly I stay out of the ME forums. They make my hair hurt.
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Amen to that.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Going off of my previous analogy in post 82...when's the last time Israel gave us a blowjob or made us a sandwich? Okay, okay, they did give us Natalie Portman/Queen Amidala. What else?
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I decree that this absolves them of about 20% of their misdeeds.

Gardener said:
That would be legitimate news agencies, non-politicized reports of various types, that sort of thing.
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What a coinkidink! I use the same ones!

DiAnna said:
They blew up Saddam's nuclear plant for us!
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Yes, back when the U.S. and Iraq were mortal enemies!
 
Demon of Light said:
What a coinkidink! I use the same ones!
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No, I meant actual legitimate news sources, and not Prison Planet, Rense, Counterpunch, Infowars, Globalresearch, Informationclearinghouse or Abovetopsecret.
 
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