View Poll Results: Is Israel A Good Ally?

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  • Yes

    14 51.85%
  • No

    9 33.33%
  • Other (Explain)

    4 14.81%
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Thread: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    People who accuse Mearsheimer or Walt of anything but being political scientists and academics with a viewpoint are not worth my time.
    Anybody who views these two frauds as peddling anything but classic canards are not worthy of mine.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  2. #112
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    I think Israel is a good ally, and I support them in their sovereignty, though I do not agree with everything they do. I think anyone who agrees with Israel 100% isn't wise.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Hence why I asked the question.
    Therefore you have confirmed everything I suggested.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Anybody who views these two frauds as peddling anything but classic canards are not worthy of mine.
    I don't agree with everything they say. They're realists and I'm more of a constructivist. Nonetheless, they're definitely respectable academics.

    Which political scientists/IR theorists do you agree with in regards to Israel?

  5. #115
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Therefore you have confirmed everything I suggested.
    Alright, humor me and give me an outline of what exactly has Israel done for the United States within the last 10 years that even remotely compares to all of the aid and political support we give them.

    To me, RIGHT NOW our relationship with Israel is more of a liability than an asset, in terms of what we are trying to accomplish in Iraq/Afghanistan, and our attempts to somehow influence the Arab Spring in our favor. Am I saying the alliance should be terminated? No. I just want a clearheaded, forthright, honest discussion of how, within the past decade, the relationship has helped us more than it has hurt us.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #116
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Alright, humor me and give me an outline of what exactly has Israel done for the United States within the last 10 years that even remotely compares to all of the aid and political support we give them.

    To me, RIGHT NOW our relationship with Israel is more of a liability than an asset, in terms of what we are trying to accomplish in Iraq/Afghanistan, and our attempts to somehow influence the Arab Spring in our favor. Am I saying the alliance should be terminated? No. I just want a clearheaded, forthright, honest discussion of how, within the past decade, the relationship has helped us more than it has hurt us.
    They blew up Saddam's nuclear plant for us! AND they took the heat for the sabotage of Iran's nuclear program. Plus they can... remove... certain unhelpful international citizens that the USA would like to see removed, but cannot constitutionally remove on its own. See, it's all good!

  7. #117
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    They blew up Saddam's nuclear plant for us! AND they took the heat for the sabotage of Iran's nuclear program. Plus they can... remove... certain unhelpful international citizens that the USA would like to see removed, but cannot constitutionally remove on its own. See, it's all good!
    So basically DiAnna is saying that Israel is our little pitbull in the ME?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #118
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Alright, humor me and give me an outline of what exactly has Israel done for the United States within the last 10 years that even remotely compares to all of the aid and political support we give them.

    To me, RIGHT NOW our relationship with Israel is more of a liability than an asset, in terms of what we are trying to accomplish in Iraq/Afghanistan, and our attempts to somehow influence the Arab Spring in our favor. Am I saying the alliance should be terminated? No. I just want a clearheaded, forthright, honest discussion of how, within the past decade, the relationship has helped us more than it has hurt us.
    I shouldn't have to humor you. If you think it is necessary to placate the irrational hatred of Jews so absolutely endemic to the Arab world as the price to pay for currying favor with them, then there is nothing left to be said.

    You cannot come up with anything good about our supporting Israel. That says more than anything I could possibly say, myself.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I shouldn't have to humor you. If you think it is necessary to placate the irrational hatred of Jews so absolutely endemic to the Arab world as the price to pay for currying favor with them, then there is nothing left to be said.
    It's in EVERYONE'S interest to find a peaceful solution in the Middle East, and the fact is neither side has been honestly attempting to do so, and even though the US has tremendous influence over Israel we don't seem to hold them accountable when they make decisions that go against are interests. If you see that as appeasement, then whatever.

    You cannot come up with anything good about our supporting Israel. That says more than anything I could possibly say, myself.
    In all honesty I can't come up with many other good things about our other allies. Israel is hardly the exception in my book. But at least NATO has troops on the ground in Afghanistan, even if it's a token amount.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #120
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    Re: Is Israel a Good Ally to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    So basically DiAnna is saying that Israel is our little pitbull in the ME?
    lol, you wanted to know how our alliance with Israel ever benefitted us. Well, having a personal guard dog with a serious set of teeth in the ME isn't all bad. I'm just sayin'.

    Edit: Seriously, I'm a "pox on both their houses" kind of gal when it comes to the Israeli/Palistenian issue. However, so many anti-Israeli posters are so completely rabid, foam-spitting, irrational haters that I sometimes end up defending Israel when it took a perfectly logical step to respond to provocation. Mostly I stay out of the ME forums. They make my hair hurt.
    Last edited by DiAnna; 05-01-11 at 11:27 PM.

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