View Poll Results: What Should the Government Focus On, Raising Revenue or Tax Rates?

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  • Revenues

    25 89.29%
  • Tax Rate

    3 10.71%
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Thread: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Well, not at the tax rates we're at now. I don't doubt the Laffer Curve's basic premise is right at the 70%+ tax rates. But below 50%, it becomes nothing more than speculation. Furthermore, US effective is low. Obama's own effective tax rate when adding in state tax is around 29%. The idea that we could actually grow revenue by cutting taxes when millionaires pay historically low rates is ignorant of history.
    If marginal rates were above 50% I would agree with them...not at this point though.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Ok, then close the loopholes. Do we give up on the idea of private property and alarm systems because people who break and enter get more sophisticated in their methods over time? Nope, we build better systems.
    This seems to be logical, but it seems as if this is never done ?
    Why ?
    Could it be that the money is no longer here in the good ole USA, but instead in Arabia, Mexico, China, India due to the 50 years of trade deficits.

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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Well, not at the tax rates we're at now. I don't doubt the Laffer Curve's basic premise is right at the 70%+ tax rates. But below 50%, it becomes nothing more than speculation. Furthermore, US effective is low. Obama's own effective tax rate when adding in state tax is around 29%. The idea that we could actually grow revenue by cutting taxes when millionaires pay historically low rates is ignorant of history.
    Federal Tax Revenue After The Bush Tax Cuts


    Federal Tax Revenue After The Reagan Tax Cuts


    Federal Tax Revenue After The JFK/Johnson Tax Cuts

    .
    .
    .
    ..

  4. #54
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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Perhaps you can clarify. Are you asking about raising tax rates versus raising revenue? Aren't higher tax rates and revenue directly related? Did you mean cutting spending versus raising revenue?
    Obviously a liberal. No, raising tax rates can reduce tax revenue. Example, as cigarette taxes skyrocket in New York, revenues drop due to people quitting smoking and cigarettes being smuggled. The tax rates President Obama said he wanted to raise even if it reduced revenue were capital gains. It was pointed out that every time capital gains taxes were raised, revenues dropped because people avoided thos financial transactions that would result in a capital gains liability. President Obama's response was that he would raise the taxes anyway to be fair.

    Democrats and Republicans both think the tax code exists to force behavior that has government approval.
    Liberals think the tax code is a weapon to punish people.

  5. #55
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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    I didn't see an option for neither. The government takes too much of our money and tax rates are too high. Free up our capital for private investors!

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #56
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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    And by the way, I'm going to call bs. The calls for raising taxes are not about raising revenues. Hauser's Law shows that changing the tax rates does not significantly change revenue. It is all about a social agenda.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #57
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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Federal Tax Revenue After The Bush Tax Cuts
    Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Try again. With less fail please. Kthxbye.

    I'd ask you to provide a period where the only material change was tax rates (I'll let you think about why that matters), but considering the intellectual stock of this place, it's futile.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    Raising revenue or tax rates??

    Neither?

  9. #59
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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I didn't see an option for neither. The government takes too much of our money and tax rates are too high. Free up our capital for private investors!
    The past three years of massive inflows into US securities suggest that ther aren't capital projects worthy of capital investment when accounting for risk. Therefore, your point appears to be moot. Lowering rates when there isn't viable projects to invest in will not increase investment or alternatively may cause significent bubbles.

    As for "too much" that is merely your opinion. Same for tax rates, which by the way, are historically low.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    The past three years of massive inflows into US securities suggest that ther aren't capital projects worthy of capital investment when accounting for risk. Therefore, your point appears to be moot. Lowering rates when there isn't viable projects to invest in will not increase investment or alternatively may cause significent bubbles.
    People invest into that because of the security and guaranteed interest. It is not because it is more worthwhile, you know this. Get rid of that debt and people will invest in the private sector.

    As for "too much" that is merely your opinion. Same for tax rates, which by the way, are historically low.
    Too much is subjective, but I think anything more than 0 is too much because the private sector does it all better.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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