View Poll Results: Would you support Progressive Grading?

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Thread: Progressive Grading in School

  1. #141
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Remember I said "brush."

    It was this one time in history class, (note that I'm fiercely competitive when it comes to quizzing) and I got the answer to a competitive quiz right, but the teacher publicly said I was wrong.

    Another guy received credit and when I confronted the teacher after class about it, she said I was "technically right."
    What the hell does that mean?
    You got the brush off with a smile/ok you were right, bye.

    The teachers I have had! ~sigh~



    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It can be very expensive, so not flawless. :/
    Too many chefs spoil the soop.
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  2. #142
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no i tend to think there is some pretty solid parallels to be drawn. that's not really the thrust of my argument here, but the effect is the same. if you simply give someone money without increasing the value of their labor, then all you have done is give them a fish and fed them for a day. if you simply give someone grades without increasing the value of their knowledge then all you have done is given them a grade and allowed them one year's progress in schooling. in both scenarios, your aid hasn't really helped the person in the long term, but rather utilized a short term paper-over-the-problem solution to dull any attempts to seek out a (more painful) long term solution.
    I'm all for helping people improve in the long-term too. I support public education, subsidized college loans, and government-sponsored financial literacy centers in poor communities. But that doesn't change the fact that the poor have some serious problems right now that need to be addressed in order to even get to the point where they're able to earn more in the long term. For example, food stamps (because malnutrition decreases earning power), Medicaid (because being chronically sick decreases earning power), addiction treatment (because being an addict decreases earning power), unemployment insurance (because having to burn through your savings when you get laid off makes people extremely risk-averse), etc.

    Virtually every anti-poverty program, including those that hand out cash for immediate needs, is designed to help people's long-term prospects in one way or another. The efficacy varies from one program to another, but the goals are generally similar.

    In the case of redistributed grades, there is no long-term (or even short-term) improvement in the lives of the affected people. Grades are just a proxy for educational attainment, which is itself just a proxy for earning power. Employers and universities would quickly catch on to the fact that everyone from a certain high school seemed to be earning C's, they'd question why that is, and they'd no longer trust the grades.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-30-11 at 07:54 AM.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm not so sure about that.
    It seems inconsistent to me that one form is "cheating, stealing, etc" while another is fair.

    Surely there are students who cheat in school, in fact at times there are a great many who "cheat" through, privileges of parents, income, actual cheating, etc.

    Why is one excusable and the other not?
    Because schools and taxation are not the same thing at all. The biggest reason is that the purpose of both institutions are far different. Taxation is how the government pays for its activities while education is about creating an educated enough workforce to sustain a first world country. Because the goals are so different, different rules would apply.

  4. #144
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    This isn't a trap thread and it's here to make you think.

    Would you support a system of grading, where the higher performing students have part of their grades distributed to lower performing students, in order for their (lower performing students) grades to be brought up to passing?

    This should be applied to all levels from Kindergarten-College/University.

    Explain your reasoning, behind your answer, please.
    No, because it is wrong for a serious education.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm all for helping people improve in the long-term too. I support public education, subsidized college loans, and government-sponsored financial literacy centers in poor communities.
    public support of education can absolutely serve as a long-term aid to escape from poverty, as can financial literacy centers. however, encouraging young and poor high school graduates to go into debt in order to maybe earn a degree of questionable and shrinking value has created an education bubble in this nation. subsidized college loans do more damage than good, methinks.

    But that doesn't change the fact that the poor have some serious problems right now that need to be addressed in order to even get to the point where they're able to earn more in the long term. For example, food stamps (because malnutrition decreases earning power), Medicaid (because being chronically sick decreases earning power), addiction treatment (because being an addict decreases earning power), unemployment insurance (because having to burn through your savings when you get laid off makes people extremely risk-averse), etc.
    except that all of those programs as currently designed ignore the fact that people respond to incentives. so if we're going to structure immediate support, then it has to be in a manner other than simple transfer payments that have been demonstrated to encourage dependency and an entitlement culture. so our attempts to help end up hurting in the long run. my problem isn't with the intent it's with our means.

    In the case of redistributed grades, there is no long-term (or even short-term) improvement in the lives of the affected people.
    and there is no long-term improvement in the lives of those who recieve transfer payments in the form of benefits; we merely set them up to make it easier for them to later take advantage of opportunities. the same is true of education redistribution that exposes the student to higher education.

    grades are just a proxy for educational attainment, which is itself just a proxy for earning power. Employers and universities would quickly catch on to the fact that everyone from a certain high school seemed to be earning C's, they'd question why that is, and they'd no longer trust the grades.
    no one is talking about complete grade redistribution; we are talking about a progressive grade code.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-30-11 at 08:46 AM.

  6. #146
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Whoa, more income does not necessarily lead to a better life, conversely lower income does not necessarily mean that your life will suck.
    Exceptions, Harry. If you have more wealth, you are generally going to not live in poor areas and will be more apt to provide for yourself (and loved ones) basic needs... or more. Better grades will not equate this.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    so no, you can't utilize logic to demonstrate how one falls on one side of dividing line and one falls on the other.
    Didn't say that. Since there is no comparison, you are asking me to show a logical comparison between a mouse and a flux capacitor. It does not compute.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #148
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    No.

    I'm for progressive teaching, where those students who are struggling get more attention and focused instruction in the classroom.
    See i don't even agree this this necessarily... I think all students should have equal attention and focus... i don't think you should take away teaching time from smart students to help the dumb one.
    There should be help session any student can attend, sothose that are struggling could show up. This does not take away from the smarter kids but adds for every kid, because the kids that arn't struggling could still go to the help session to further their knowledge.

    Progressive teaching just encourages everyone to stay at the same level at the intelligent and hard-workings expense.

  9. #149
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Exceptions, Harry. If you have more wealth, you are generally going to not live in poor areas and will be more apt to provide for yourself (and loved ones) basic needs... or more. Better grades will not equate this.
    Not to mention it would hurt you if you got grades you didn't deserve. People will think you're smarter than you really are, give you too many responsibilities and you screw it up because you are still incompetent.

    Another problem is the education system in and of itself. Trying to quantify something in the manner that we do just doesn't work that well. For example, there are some people in my school (I'm a senior in high school) who aren't very "book smart", but can talk their way through any situation, and have an incredible amount of street smarts. That never gets quantified, and sent to colleges, and could have a huge impact on those people's competency in a job. Our school system, and education system is set up to cater to a narrow set of skills and abilities, and extracurriculars and sports are only given so much weight in college admissions and the like.

    Going back to the original question, it hurts the top students to take their grades and give it to the stupid, because it overestimates the competency of the lower students, and underestimates the competency of the higher students.
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  10. #150
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    Re: Progressive Grading in School

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Didn't say that. Since there is no comparison, you are asking me to show a logical comparison between a mouse and a flux capacitor. It does not compute.
    no, but if they are two different things, then it is possible to draw that dividing line where classification occurs.

    for example, a donkey is a mammal, but a bottle of whiskey is not. you ask me to prove that a donkey is a mammal while a bottle of whiskey is not. i say okay, my metric is that all mammals have internal skeletal structures and are warm-blooded. the Donkey has an internal skeletal structure and warm blood, so it is a mammal, while a bottle of whiskey - though delicious and nutritious - has no internal skeletal structure, and no blood; and therefore is not.

    two items. a dividing metric to demonstrate that one belongs in the group under discussion and one does not. I ask again for what your dividing metric is that isn't obviously bent to provide a predetermined conclusion.

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