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Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

Are gay people "abnormal"?

  • Total voters
    91
evanescence said:
Well I was mostly referring to the percentage of the population that has committed violent crimes, but here is a stat showing that over 3% have the disorder.

Antisocial personality disorder appears in 3.6 percent of the adult US population, or approximately 7.6 million people.
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3.6% is a far cry from 5% when talking millions of people and crimes. They are also only the crimes reported. Rape for instance is under reported.

Like I said the crime statistics do not jive with your assessment. It also does not jive with the fact the violent crime rate has been dropping for years. Either way this is getting off topic.
 
Blackdog said:
3.6% is a far cry from 5% when talking millions of people and crimes. They are also only the crimes reported. Rape for instance is under reported.

Like I said the crime statistics do not jive with your assessment. It also does not jive with the fact the violent crime rate has been dropping for years. Either way this is getting off topic.
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I guess I'm not being clear enough. Violent crime stats seem to indicate that less than 5% of the population has committed violent crimes. Nearly 4% are sociopaths. I guess I'll let it go at that.
 
What does any of this have to do with the fact that gay people are abnormally abnormal?
 
Abnormal would be something that could be identified at birth... such as a birth defect.
 
evanescence said:
I guess I'm not being clear enough. Violent crime stats seem to indicate that less than 5% of the population has committed violent crimes. Nearly 4% are sociopaths. I guess I'll let it go at that.
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No you are absolutely being clear enough. A sociopath knows the difference between right and wrong whether he/she is emotionally detached or not. Animals even when taught not to do something do not understand the full concept outside of conditioned responses taught by humans. Humans alone know right from wrong as a completely moral and emotional concept.

Animals and humans are not the same thing.
 
BentWingedAngel said:
Abnormal would be something that could be identified at birth... such as a birth defect.
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So a guy that is 8 1/2 feet tall is not "abnormally" tall, or abnormal from the norm at 5'10"? Nope, the guy is abnormal even though it was not noticeable at birth.
 
Blackdog said:
What separates us is our ability to reason and understand abstract concepts.
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No. Actually some primates and birds are quite proficient at reasoning. What separates humans from other animals is our ability to generalize. That ability forms the basis of our language, mathematics, and abstract knowledge. We don't have a complete monopoly over that ability either, since African Grey Parrots are capable of categorizing and possess brains that are roughly equivalent to that of a 4 year old human child. The conception that animals can't reason is false and has been disproven numerous times. The only people who make that argument are theologians who find it inconvenient that humans are not quite as distinct from other animals as they feel we should be.
 
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Bodhisattva said:
What does any of this have to do with the fact that gay people are abnormally abnormal?
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No. They're not abnormal at all. They just have different life styles and preferences, and any inference of abnormality should be labeled exactly what it is: someone's opinion.

Blackdog said:
No you are absolutely being clear enough. A sociopath knows the difference between right and wrong whether he/she is emotionally detached or not. Animals even when taught not to do something do not understand the full concept outside of conditioned responses taught by humans. Humans alone know right from wrong as a completely moral and emotional concept.

Animals and humans are not the same thing.
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Right from wrong is also relative. Morality differs from culture to culture. Some things maybe be universal, but the vast majority of the time, it isn't. A sociopath may understand the logical concept of right and wrong, but cannot process such information. They have a mental illness.

CriticalThought said:
No. Actually some primates and birds are quite proficient at reasoning. What separates humans from other animals is our ability to generalize. That ability forms the basis of our language, mathematics, and abstract knowledge. We don't have a complete monopoly over that ability either, since African Grey Parrots are capable of categorizing and possess brains that are roughly equivalent to that of a 4 year old human child. The conception that animals can't reason is false and has been disproven numerous times. The only people who make that argument are theologians who find it inconvenient that humans are not quite as distinct from other animals as they feel we should be.
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Excellent point.
 
evanescence said:
No. They're not abnormal at all. They just have different life styles and preferences, and any inference of abnormality should be labeled exactly what it is: someone's opinion.
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Different from the norm is abnormal. Just how it is. Doesn't make it good or bad. I am abnormally good looking and intelligent. Not good or bad, just how it is. I have known more gay people than probably anybody (or most at least) on this forum, having lived where I have and worked where I worked. Literally hundreds I would consider people that I knew and got along with. Many of them admitted it wasn't normal, but what is normal anyway? Heterosexuals are normal, but there are all types of them as well that fit into abnormal categories. I think that the problem is one of being PC. Somebody that is mentally challenged is also retarded. But calling somebody retarded is negative now, just as the term abnormal. No biggy... also known as a midget.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Different from the norm is abnormal. Just how it is. Doesn't make it good or bad. I am abnormally good looking and intelligent. Not good or bad, just how it is. I have known more gay people than probably anybody (or most at least) on this forum, having lived where I have and worked where I worked. Literally hundreds I would consider people that I knew and got along with. Many of them admitted it wasn't normal, but what is normal anyway? Heterosexuals are normal, but there are all types of them as well that fit into abnormal categories. I think that the problem is one of being PC. Somebody that is mentally challenged is also retarded. But calling somebody retarded is negative now, just as the term abnormal. No biggy... also known as a midget.
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I think there's a difference between an abnormal trait and an abnormal person. Homosexuality is abnormal, but a homosexual person is not necessarily abnormal as a total person just like being extremely tall is abnormal, but an extremely tall person is not necessarily abnormal as a total person.

However, if one decides that having a single abnormal trait makes the entire person abnormal, then everyone is abnormal and therefore, everyone, including homosexuals are normal in their abnormality. Nonetheless, it doesn't make sense to me to call an individual abnormal simply because he/she has a single abnormal trait.
 
theplaydrive said:
I think there's a difference between an abnormal trait and an abnormal person. Homosexuality is abnormal, but a homosexual person is not necessarily abnormal as a total person just like being extremely tall is abnormal, but an extremely tall person is not necessarily abnormal as a total person.

However, if one decides that having a single abnormal trait makes the entire person abnormal, then everyone is abnormal and therefore, everyone, including homosexuals are normal in their abnormality. Nonetheless, it doesn't make sense to me to call an individual abnormal simply because he/she has a single abnormal trait.
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Good distinction. I can agree with that modification of my statement. Well done. :)
 
CriticalThought said:
No. Actually some primates and birds are quite proficient at reasoning. What separates humans from other animals is our ability to generalize. That ability forms the basis of our language, mathematics, and abstract knowledge. We don't have a complete monopoly over that ability either, since African Grey Parrots are capable of categorizing and possess brains that are roughly equivalent to that of a 4 year old human child. The conception that animals can't reason is false and has been disproven numerous times. The only people who make that argument are theologians who find it inconvenient that humans are not quite as distinct from other animals as they feel we should be.
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Animals do not understand the concepts of right and wrong or art etc. They are not "proficient at reasoning" in the way humans are, not even remotely the same. No comparison here. A 4 year old human child does not understand those basic concepts yet either, hence they have no contract rights etc.

As soon as you can show an animal, any animal that understands stealing is against the law, understand past and future or appreciate a piece of art, you will have a point.

Your last comment is just ignorance.

Animals cannot reason or understand abtract concpets as humans do, period.
 
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Bodhisattva said:
Different from the norm is abnormal. Just how it is. Doesn't make it good or bad. I am abnormally good looking and intelligent. Not good or bad, just how it is. I have known more gay people than probably anybody (or most at least) on this forum, having lived where I have and worked where I worked. Literally hundreds I would consider people that I knew and got along with. Many of them admitted it wasn't normal, but what is normal anyway? Heterosexuals are normal, but there are all types of them as well that fit into abnormal categories. I think that the problem is one of being PC. Somebody that is mentally challenged is also retarded. But calling somebody retarded is negative now, just as the term abnormal. No biggy... also known as a midget.
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i see what you mean. It's abnormal in the sense that they are only less than 10% of the population. I had interpreted your statement as a moral judgment. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
CriticalThought said:
No. Actually some primates and birds are quite proficient at reasoning. What separates humans from other animals is our ability to generalize. That ability forms the basis of our language, mathematics, and abstract knowledge. We don't have a complete monopoly over that ability either, since African Grey Parrots are capable of categorizing and possess brains that are roughly equivalent to that of a 4 year old human child. The conception that animals can't reason is false and has been disproven numerous times. The only people who make that argument are theologians who find it inconvenient that humans are not quite as distinct from other animals as they feel we should be.
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You're both wrong. It's our ability to communicate that makes a special.
 
How can we know for sure that other animals do not posses at least a primitive language? It's just an assumption. It's nice to believe that we, as humans, are somehow the center of the universe, but we're not. The fact is, if we were wiped off the face of the planet, nature wouldn't miss a beat. In fact, the planet would be better off without the pollution and destruction.
 
evanescence said:
How can we know for sure that other animals do not posses at least a primitive language? It's just an assumption. It's nice to believe that we, as humans, are somehow the center of the universe, but we're not. The fact is, if we were wiped off the face of the planet, nature wouldn't miss a beat. In fact, the planet would be better off without the pollution and destruction.
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They likely do, it's our ability to communicate at the complexity we do that has enabled us to be what we are.
 
mac said:
You're both wrong. It's our ability to communicate that makes a special.
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Animal communication can be as diverse and complicated as human communication.

Look at whales ya loser! Whales can almost talk! They understand us! Whales are just big gay communication specialists!! So bugger off you whale hatting loser pants! I bet you are the captain of a [gasp!] Japanese whaling vessel on whale wars! OMG! WTF!

This is NSFW unless you are in hair design or fashon..

This is a picture of the "BJ Whale Shark."

whale_shark_research.jpg


This is the Beluga or more popularly known "cross dressing whale."

2602430115_2d31d110e5.jpg


This is a "sperm" whale (hint, hint) eating some kalimari! How gay is that???

sperm-whale-giant-squid-fight.jpg
 
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evanescence said:
How can we know for sure that other animals do not posses at least a primitive language?
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Because they don't. They do however communicate and in some cases quite well. This however does not make them intelligent as even bee's can communicate.

evanescence said:
It's just an assumption. It's nice to believe that we, as humans, are somehow the center of the universe, but we're not.
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Considering we can blow the planet and all it's abundant life to nothingness, I beg to differ, lol. Nature ain't got nothing on man insofar as destructive power goes.

evanescence said:
The fact is, if we were wiped off the face of the planet, nature wouldn't miss a beat. In fact, the planet would be better off without the pollution and destruction.
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Very true.
 
Blackdog said:
Animals do not understand the concepts of right and wrong or art etc.
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Animals demonstrate morality.

Animals can tell right from wrong - Telegraph

They are not "proficient at reasoning" in the way humans are, not even remotely the same. No comparison here.
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Incorrect. In fact, New Caledonian crows through scientific experiments have been proven to possess causal reasoning.

A 4 year old human child does not understand those basic concepts yet either, hence they have no contract rights etc.
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Given that your argument was that humans are different than animals and not that adult humans are different than animals, your argument seems to be slipping.

As soon as you can show an animal, any animal that understands stealing is against the law, understand past and future or appreciate a piece of art, you will have a point.
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Many of these things differ within human cultures. For example, not every culture perceives time as linear, not every culture has the same conception of stealing, and not every culture appreciates art. The fact that you argue that these are the defining characteristics of humanity when not all humans even share these traits, tends to show more of your ethnocentrism than your understanding of what makes humans different than animals.

Animals cannot reason or understand abtract concpets as humans do, period.
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Baboons trained on computers show they are capable of abstract reasoning - Science, News - The Independent

Do you like being wrong? I absolutely love proving theologians like you wrong. It gives me plenty of reason to get up in the morning.
 
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Blackdog said:
Considering we can blow the planet and all it's abundant life to nothingness, I beg to differ, lol. Nature ain't got nothing on man insofar as destructive power goes.
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By that logic, a mindless asteroid meets your standard of superiority.
 
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