Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

Redress said:

Evolution is a term to describe the cumulative effects of random forces. There is no "method".

Click to expand...

If cumulative effects of random forces guide our every notion, then why do we have the legal system which criminalizes the the random chemicals within the brains of such people? I might as well kill someone and blame it on evolution's random cumulative effects of my makeup..

Wake said:

But that is exactly the point. The theory of evolution is not concretely proven, it's a theory. Theory =/= concretely proven. If I asked 20 scientists how life came to exist, I am sure I would not get one unanimous position. In fact, I've actually debated with multiple "evolutionists" and they kept arguing amongst themselves about their theories...

Click to expand...

We are getting way off topic, but...

First, yes, there are differences among evolutionary scientists as to the exact mechanisms of evolution. For example, does evolution work at a genetic level or on the level of individual creatures/plants/bacterium/etc? Does evolution work steadily, or are there periods of accelerated evolution? However, these same people agree that evolution does work.

The scientific use of the word theory has a very concrete meaning, which means among other things that it fits all the known facts and has never been disproven. Evolution is a very strong theory, meaning that it is very very likely to be an accurate description of nature.

Wake said:

If cumulative effects of random forces guide our every notion, then why do we have the legal system which criminalizes the the random chemicals within the brains of such people? I might as well kill someone and blame it on evolution's random cumulative effects of my makeup..

Click to expand...

Society is not nature.

Redress said:

This is correct.

Click to expand...

It's more, homosexuality isn't perfection... while heterosexuality is closer to perfection. Thats the easiest way for me to explain it. Again, im all for gay rights, i don't really care, but your argument can be used for ANY birth-defect/abnormality. Being born without an arm is just as abnormal as born being gay... it's just not what "nature" intended/ or what our genetic make-up intended.

It's an understatement to say that the definition of 'abnormal' varies from person to person. It's a word that has multiple definitions even for an individual. My answer is yes AND no.

cpwill said:

breathes oxygen, has red blood, speaks english:

Click to expand...

Yeah, and? The discussion at hand is "normality". Brutality and violence are certainly normal for human beings.

Redress said:

We are getting way off topic, but...

First, yes, there are differences among evolutionary scientists as to the exact mechanisms of evolution. For example, does evolution work at a genetic level or on the level of individual creatures/plants/bacterium/etc? Does evolution work steadily, or are there periods of accelerated evolution? However, these same people agree that evolution does work.

The scientific use of the word theory has a very concrete meaning, which means among other things that it fits all the known facts and has never been disproven. Evolution is a very strong theory, meaning that it is very very likely to be an accurate description of nature.

Click to expand...

It may be a strong theory, but it is merely a theory. There are also many things evolution can't explain, one example being how the first life-form came to be which started this evolutional parade. Methinks I'll check out books about evolution soon to more easily refute said evolutional claims.

Redress said:

Society is not nature.

Click to expand...

True, but my gut believed I could make a connection of some sort. Considering we humans, like nature, are creted from cumulative random forces and that all our beliefs are just concoctions of random chemical reactions in our brains... bleh. (I don't believe evolution, but it's fun to wield that standpoint from time to time.)

Wake said:

I think it is the influences around us that make people decide that lifestyle. From an evolutional standpoint which demands survival and productivity, I do not believe we are "born" gay. If we were then the species is being culled off. We're meant to multiply, in regards to evolution. *Has read a few part of Darwin's book. In terms of Christianity, I don't believe people are born that way, either, because scriptures in both new and old state it is a "perversion." There may be fat genes, but I don't believe there are homosexual genes. If genes could count for our every notion, then am I to then assume that there's a Goth gene, or an Emo one, or a jock one (not sure on this one), a vore gene, a polygamy gene, etc?

Do I hate homosexuals? No. I hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't view them with contempt because we all sin, constantly, from pride, to vanity, to lust, to vengeance, to greed, etc. My dislike of sin spreads to everyone equally, myself included. That's pretty much why I now view both political parties with contempt. *I don't mean to seem off-topic.

Also, I know people who believed they were born gay, but then greatly changed their minds. How is that explained?

Click to expand...

First off, Darwin's book is the end all be all book about evolution, we have come leaps and bounds ahead of where Darwin was with his theory, and today it has more historical significance than scientific. Secondly there is no reason to assume that we as a species would be culled off by people being born gay. In primitive populations it would be determined by the rate of people born homosexual(assuming they wouldn't reproduce anyway) vs the rate of heterosexuals, and with my theory about how one is born homosexual, you don't even need to be homosexual to carry the predisposition. And also in our modern society homosexuality has no chance to quell our numbers, simply due to the fact that we have the medical technology to reproduce without sex. Also you must note that being homosexual doesn't exclude heterosexual activity.
Religiously I have a differing opinion but that is for another thread.
And with regards to the people who have "turned straight" there are just as many people who have recanted their "turning" and said that it is a bunch of bogus. My theory is that societally pressure will make us do alot of things, and this is no exception.

Oh, and one more thing, being gay isn't a lifestyle, LGBT people live varying lifestyles, and I probably have about as much in common with a gay person from California as another person from Georgia. Lifestyle depends on where one is from, the job they have, they hobbies they have etc. I would say polygamy/polyandry are lifestyle choices, but not homosexuality.

Redress said:

For how you define the word "abnormal", do you consider gays to be "abnormal"?

Click to expand...

Yes.

............

Your Star said:

So when someone eventually games the poll we can check and see the real results.

Click to expand...

Yes, asking a controversial question about a controversial subject is just asking for trouble.

celticwar17 said:

It's more, homosexuality isn't perfection... while heterosexuality is closer to perfection. Thats the easiest way for me to explain it. Again, im all for gay rights, i don't really care, but your argument can be used for ANY birth-defect/abnormality. Being born without an arm is just as abnormal as born being gay... it's just not what "nature" intended/ or what our genetic make-up intended.

Click to expand...

This is absolutely false.

American said:

Yes, asking a controversial question about a controversial subject is just asking for trouble.

Click to expand...

I think her point is that we can see the true results when someone tries to vote anonymously several times to skew the results.

Wake said:

It may be a strong theory, but it is merely a theory. There are also many things evolution can't explain, one example being how the first life-form came to be which started this evolutional parade. Methinks I'll check out books about evolution soon to more easily refute said evolutional claims.

Click to expand...

A theory as it is used in the scientific sense is not "mere". While evolution does not explain how life began, it does not explain what gravity is either. The reason for both is they are outside the scope of the theory.

True, but my gut believed I could make a connection of some sort. Considering we humans, like nature, are creted from cumulative random forces and that all our beliefs are just concoctions of random chemical reactions in our brains... bleh. (I don't believe evolution, but it's fun to wield that standpoint from time to time.)

Click to expand...

Society and the rules of society come about from the exact opposite of random.

mac said:

Yes.

............

Click to expand...

I knew your answer.

digsbe said:

I think her point is that we can see the true results when someone tries to vote anonymously several times to skew the results.

Click to expand...

To be honest(and don't tell any one), but the "results" are actually pretty meaningless on multiple levels, especially considering on how I worded the question.

Redress said:

To be honest(and don't tell any one), but the "results" are actually pretty meaningless on multiple levels, especially considering on how I worded the question.

Click to expand...

True. If anything it's a discovery on how certain people reason.

In my definition of normal, gay people are not abnormal.

as if said:

View attachment 67113991

They have a way of defending everything, right down to insisting nature does not exist or has nothing to do with it.

Yesterday definitions of words needed to be proven. ~Imagine~


Go Figure

Click to expand...

When someone makes up words it's logically sound to ask what the person means.

as if said:

View attachment 67113991

They have a way of defending everything, right down to insisting nature does not exist or has nothing to do with it.

Yesterday definitions of words needed to be proven. ~Imagine~

Go Figure

Click to expand...

The same could easily be said about the other side

Your Star said:

When someone makes up words it's logically sound to ask what the person means.

Click to expand...

What word was made up?

digsbe said:

The same could easily be said about the other side

Click to expand...

Care to explain?

as if said:

Care to explain?

Click to expand...

My point is that the other side also has a way of defending everything and will go into desperation at times.

digsbe said:

My point is that the other side also has a way of defending everything and will go into desperation at times.

Click to expand...

I have to agree that desperate attempts that indicate fanaticism do happen. But it is the arguemnt in intself that must be examined.

Redress said:

There are actually a couple different theories of evolution accounting for homosexuality. The best(to my mind) assumes that evolution selects genes, not individuals(this assumption is I believe the favored theory at the current time). It is important to remember that you are not the only one with a particular gene. Your sister for example contains 1/4 of the exact same genes you do. Therefore if homosexuality increased the odds of survival for relatives of the homosexuality enough, it could in fact be a survival trait for the gene.

Click to expand...

In that case, isn't the gene for homosexuality similar in function to the gene for sickle-cell anemia, which enhances malaria resistance? We are still discussing a genetic abnormality that leads to biological impairment.

Viktyr Korimir said:

In that case, isn't the gene for homosexuality similar in function to the gene for sickle-cell anemia, which enhances malaria resistance? We are still discussing a genetic abnormality that leads to biological impairment.

Click to expand...

More closely it would be related to a mothers instinct to sacrifice herself to protect her young. It is a survival trait at a genetic level if not for the individual organism.