View Poll Results: Are gay people "abnormal"?

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  • Yes

    31 32.98%
  • No

    63 67.02%
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Thread: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

  1. #931
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I have never seen any proof of a genetic link to homosexuality. In the past homosexuality was treated in the realm of Abnormal Psychology and a strong lobbying campaign changed that. No proof of genetic origins for homosexuality has ever been documented, even in this thread. That is a strong statement that there are no genetic origins, but if there are, I would like to know about them. Provide the links.
    Oh wow, this tired old refrain. Here, let me post the standard reply.

    "Show me the heterosexual gene."

    Funny thing about genetics....no one knows what each gene strand does what yet. They can't even tell you whether a person will be born blue eyed or brown eyed.

    Edit: As to the evidence bit, there are over 1000+ species on this planet that have homosexuality members. Link That is a pretty strong indicator that homosexuality is genetic as animals are instinctual, IE not capable of making choices.

    Edit 2: Oh as for the "realm of Abnormal Psychology"....black people were once thought of as animals at one point in history also...it took strong lobbying to get them elevated to human also.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 05-10-11 at 10:11 AM.
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  2. #932
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    "Show me the heterosexual gene."
    Kal, I totally agree with half your posts and totally disagree with half your posts. This is the former.

  3. #933
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Not necessarily. There are plenty of physical and/or innate differences that are not numerically equal, yet at the same time are on equal footing. Handedness, hair color, eye color, the enjoyment of certain foods or smells. Just because there is a larger percentage of one over the other does not mean that both do not have the same intrinsic value. Your comparison is invalid because you are trying to compare numerical equivalency with worthiness equivalency.
    Well, first, physical characteristics such as hair and eye color are genetic without a doubt so are not comparable. There chance of occurance is related to combinations of genes whereas orientation is not. Well, is likely not, to be fair.

    That's pretty funny, mac, but you really need to put some sort of smilie after you make a joke.
    Why's it a joke? I'm not trying to prove anything, at least to anyone other than myself. I'm explaining my point of view, and waiting for someone to show me real evidence of their claim.
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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  4. #934
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Nor is there ANY CONCLUSIVE study on the origins of heterosexuality. Everytime we debate, you run into this problem.
    I don't dispute that, I never have. I entertain that it is possible that being homosexual is not a choice, but know that there is no proof of it. The problem I have with this argument is that there are an aweful lot of people out there that think there is conclusive proof that homosexuality has been proven to be a result of genetic and other factors and that "born gay" has been proven conclusivley. You yourself have indicated that by glossing over the "may be" in the summaries of all these studies.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  5. #935
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
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    I'm glad you think so!
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  6. #936
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Edit: As to the evidence bit, there are over 1000+ species on this planet that have homosexuality members. Link That is a pretty strong indicator that homosexuality is genetic as animals are instinctual, IE not capable of making choices.
    Higher animals most certainly do make decisions. They also understand loneliness etc that is not instinctual: they can be taught. This line does bring another question to the table though. Why is it animals lower on the scale like alligators who have a brain the size of a marble do not show homosexual behavior?

    Now their are a few that exhibit this behavior due mostly to pheromones and an attraction to others that have just finished feeding as in the case of bed bugs. It is exceedingly rare in lower level organisms in general, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Edit 2: Oh as for the "realm of Abnormal Psychology"....black people were once thought of as animals at one point in history also...it took strong lobbying to get them elevated to human also.
    This had nothing to do with behavior and everything to do with superficial physical judgment.

    PS: Either way animals are not a good model for human behavior. Animals cannot reason as humans do.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-10-11 at 04:11 PM.
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Higher animals most certainly do make decisions. They also understand loneliness etc that is not instinctual: they can be taught. This line does bring another question to the table though. Why is it animals lower on the scale like alligators who have a brain the size of a marble do not show homosexual behavior?

    Now their are a few that exhibit this behavior due mostly to pheromones and an attraction to others that have just finished feeding as in the case of bed bugs. It is exceedingly rare in lower level organisms in general, why?
    Well fruit flies aren't too smart:
    Male Drosophila melanogaster flies bearing two copies of a mutant allele in the fruitless gene court and attempt to mate exclusively with other males.[18] The genetic basis of animal homosexuality has been studied in the fly Drosophila melanogaster.[80] Here, multiple genes have been identified that can cause homosexual courtship and mating.[81] These genes are thought to control behavior through pheromones as well as altering the structure of the animal's brains.
    Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I'm not sure why the uncommonness of it in "lower" species matters (if it even is uncommon). If there is just one, it's clear that homosexual attraction exists as the result of something other than human choice.

    This had nothing to do with behavior and everything to do with superficial physical judgment.
    His point has nothing to do with behavior vs. appearance. It's about the fact that uneducated characterizations of certain groups are illogical to use as evidence for arguments about those groups.

    Moreover, behavior had a lot to do with why blacks were considered animals. Obviously Europeans made superficial judgments based on skin color, but the "animal" characterization was based in the differences between African and European society and culture.

    PS: Either way animals are not a good model for human behavior. Animals cannot reason as humans do.
    It isn't about animals as "model" per se as human behavior. It's about using animals to see if homosexual attraction and behavior is purely the result of human choice/reason; it clearly isn't.

  8. #938
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    For how you define the word "abnormal", do you consider gays to be "abnormal"?


    It's not usually something people choose, although it can be. Many people have felt "gay" even early in childhood, and have always known they were different. Others experience sexual abuse and become gay. Is it abnormal? It depends. less than 10% of the population is thought to be homosexual, but I'm guessing the number is likely higher. Just because something is in the minority doesn't necessarily make it abnormal.
    Last edited by Alyssa; 05-10-11 at 05:20 PM. Reason: typo
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  9. #939
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I have never seen any proof of a genetic link to homosexuality. In the past homosexuality was treated in the realm of Abnormal Psychology and a strong lobbying campaign changed that. No proof of genetic origins for homosexuality has ever been documented, even in this thread. That is a strong statement that there are no genetic origins, but if there are, I would like to know about them. Provide the links.
    1) No one is claiming a genetic link to homosexuality. However, if you know of a genetic link to HETEROsexuality, please provide the links.

    2) You are mistaken about how homosexuality was removed as a disorder by the APA. The lobbying campaign was to have the APA read the research that demonstrated that homosexuality was not a disorder.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  10. #940
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    We have you refuse to accept it because you dont agree with it
    You have not. Anything you have presented has been refuted. You do not accept that because you do not agree with it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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